Confronting The "ctb"ers

[CobaltBlue 662]

I've started noticing a popular bluffing line in both Limit and NL. I think it's gained popularity among LAGs because it's the typical "strong hand" line. Maybe it's always been there and I just haven't taken much notice. I read in Esfandiari's book that him and Laak use the term "CTB" for "call to bluff". Essentially, they're talking about calling on an early street in order to bluff a later one.I ran into two different guys tonight (one in LHE, one in NLHE) that liked to do this pretty frequently. They'd call most flops in position and then raise your turn bet or bet when you'd check to them. It was pretty funny and profitable consistently picking them off with check-raises on the turn...either with or without a hand...though usually with some semblance of one. I'm wondering if y'all think this is the most effective way to deal with this style of opponent. The problem is that you're expending a considerable amount of chips on the rare occasion that they have a hand.

[Abbaddabba 0]

If theyre constantly raising the big streets with nothing in full ring, it's not too difficult to win money from them.It's not just a line to bluff.It's also something i like doing to people who frequently checkraise flops. It makes it more expensive for them to follow through with their bluff since they are obligated to bet the turn, and it makes them less inclined to play back at your steals.

[myenemy 0]

I think its a pretty good strategy actually, and certainly a great tool to keep in your box but I dont think it is necessarily something that you have to worry about someone overdoing. Dont know what limits your playing, but unless youre playing exceptionally tight for some reason, you will have a hand many times in that spot and "pay them off" anyway. Obviously in a NL game they may raise too much for you to pay them off, but in that case I would just factor in the possibility of the CTB play and fold/call/raise accordingly. The best defense to a CTB culprit is to sit to his left!

[kdogg 0]

It was pretty funny and profitable consistently picking them off with check-raises on the turn...either with or without a hand...though usually with some semblance of one. I'm wondering if y'all think this is the most effective way to deal with this style of opponent. The problem is that you're expending a considerable amount of chips on the rare occasion that they have a hand.

When you have a hand, it may be better to call them down instead of re-raising. This gives them more opportunities to bluff into you, and it also saves you some bets when they actually have a hand.

[MasterLJ 0]

I've started noticing a popular bluffing line in both Limit and NL. I think it's gained popularity among LAGs because it's the typical "strong hand" line. Maybe it's always been there and I just haven't taken much notice. I read in Esfandiari's book that him and Laak use the term "CTB" for "call to bluff". Essentially, they're talking about calling on an early street in order to bluff a later one.I ran into two different guys tonight (one in LHE, one in NLHE) that liked to do this pretty frequently. They'd call most flops in position and then raise your turn bet or bet when you'd check to them. It was pretty funny and profitable consistently picking them off with check-raises on the turn...either with or without a hand...though usually with some semblance of one. I'm wondering if y'all think this is the most effective way to deal with this style of opponent. The problem is that you're expending a considerable amount of chips on the rare occasion that they have a hand.

If you actually use the same line when you have a hand as when you don't, it's extraordinarily difficult to counter the CTB. I use this sparingly in 6-max and I abuse it regularly in HU play, especially limit.The key element to the bluff is consistancy. Bet the same when you have it as when you don't. Your opponent will make mistakes because they will simply be guessing.

[myenemy 0]

The key element to the bluff is consistancy. Bet the same when you have it as when you don't. Your opponent will make mistakes because they will simply be guessing.

And thats what we want! VG point.

[MasterLJ 0]

And thats what we want! VG point.

Exactly, but Cobalt's post was how to detect them/pick off their bluffs. The unfortunate answer, is that if they are talented it will be very difficult.If they over-use it, then just pay off their big hands because you are going to make money long run picking off nearly all of their CTB attempts. But if they use it cunningly, it's going to be a tough ride.

[gooch 0]

alter between big moves and min raises, if you show down with a min raise after a while you should be able to minimize your risk in a lot of times where you have air

[pokerplayer24 0]

Strategy dominates tags that continue to bet/fold the turn a ton. Just counter it by checking more turns with marginal holdings and calling down more when checkraised.