What Would You Do?

[ShardCark 0]

During a weekly $50NL game, player 1 has been telling player 2 that he is going to bust him. By the way, they barely know each other, so it isn't a very friendly atmosphere.Anyway, a few hours in, and both players have around $150. Player 2 raises and Player 1 calls. Flop hits KQ4. Player one checks, player two says again that he will bust him, and bets $8. Player 2 gives him the chance, and moves all in. Player 1 jumps up and slams his KQ down on the board, very pleased with himself. Player 2 flips up KK.Player 1, slumps down, and asks for a chip count. As he is counting his own chips, he says "I never said call." So, he refuses to pay him.Now, obviously, he is "technically" correct. Player 2 did make the mistake of flipping his cards prematurely. One the flip side, everyone KNEW what his intentions were. However, we can't make him give the other player his chips, since he never said call.How would you handle this? Tell him to pay up or don't come back? Do nothing? Encourage Player 2 to follow him outside and crack his head?

[FourFlusher 0]

Punch him in the throat.I sure wouldn't have him back.

[yourboygsarida 0]

i would encourage player 2 to follow him outside and "collect" the money that he is owed

[ricker 0]

never invite him back. That's loooooow man....Although the other guy should've asked are you calling? But stillt hat's some BS right there.

[astros11ss 0]

if this ever happened at the game i run with two of my friends, the guy would either pay the money or get the **** beat out of him and not get invited back. his choice.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

drop kick him in the lower spine and make him hope the next poker room he plays at has a rail

[NEWBIEX10 0]

if this ever happened at the game i run with two of my friends, the guy would either pay the money or get the **** beat out of him and not get invited back. his choice.

ditto try that in boston...that would be hilarious.......soo hilarious..not even boston forget that, any game where people know the game and would NEVER EVER TOLERATE THIS....if he really got away with that , thats sad...did he continue to play, what was the outcome?wow that situation is borderline fiction...did thnat really happen, with poker players around??

[ShardCark 0]

if this ever happened at the game i run with two of my friends, the guy would either pay the money or get the **** beat out of him and not get invited back. his choice.

First, let me say, this isn't my game. I'm just another player there. Second, i don't think violence, or the threat is violence is called for in this situation, and the second player is partially responsible for this mess.That said, when the host later asked what I think he should do, I said the boy should pay, or be told never to come back. It was a cheap move. And, I forgot, but 2 weeks earlier, in a very similar situation, he practically forced another player to pay up. (We have about 25 players who rotate in this game, only these two incidents)

[mosley 0]

yeah, he stood up and smiled, but many of my friends fold in the same way (without the standing up part).

[Kangaroo 0]

He beat him... straight up.pay heem. pay zat man his money

[NEWBIEX10 0]

Second, i don't think violence, or the threat is violence is called for in this situation, and the second player is partially responsible for this mess.

are you serious, ask doyle about violence in poker...not only is it money, but its the essence of the game... I would def turn violent if this ever happened, with me in the pot or not, because suprise suprise I would be vocal.........try telling a bookie that a guy owes him money and not turn violent, except this is more sever poker is mental warfare, if he decides to take it beyond mental you make it warfare period....this is the same as catching someone setting the deck...they get hurt...period

[FourFlusher 0]

"I never said call.""You never said beat the living chit out of me, either, but, that's what I'm gonna do if you don't start sliding some chips over here."

[ShardCark 0]

are you serious, ask doyle about violence in poker...not only is it money, but its the essence of the game... I would def turn violent if this ever happened, with me in the pot or not, because suprise suprise I would be vocal.........try telling a bookie that a guy owes him money and not turn violent, except this is more sever poker is mental warfare, if he decides to take it beyond mental you make it warfare period....this is the same as catching someone setting the deck...they get hurt...period

You seem a little misguided here. For starters, the violence I've read about that Doyle has written has mostly been bandits robbing the game. Also, if you think poker is warfare, you should join the military. They'll teach you about warfare.If the kid had SAID "call" and then refused to pay, yes, I'd be in favor of forcing him to pay up. But, in this case, he technically has the right not to pay. It violates the spirit of the rules, but follows the letter.

[pokerplayer24 0]

If he never said call then he didnt call. I dont care whats right or watever. In the game of poker the player with KK made the mistake and its his own fault.

[NEWBIEX10 0]

You seem a little misguided here. For starters, the violence I've read about that Doyle has written has mostly been bandits robbing the game. Also, if you think poker is warfare, you should join the military. They'll teach you about warfare.If the kid had SAID "call" and then refused to pay, yes, I'd be in favor of forcing him to pay up. But, in this case, he technically has the right not to pay. It violates the spirit of the rules, but follows the letter.

your naieve if you dont think poker is mental warfare...no teams just you and 9 other players that want your money..... he had top 2, flipped over his cards.... just think of this as not calling fouls with basketball with your boys..... you dont go by the rules but if it is that obvious you enforce it..... he was right not to pay...are you serious try that in any poker game not filled with 18 yr olds....you sir are nieve misinformed or just a plain vagina.... wow what a silly post, if he got away with this, good for him, nah not good for him at all, shame on anyone who was there....this is such a ridiculously obvious topicedit: yes if in casino he does not pay...but intentions are so obvious 2 words..........man law...guys we all know thje correct ruling, but are you serious, in a homegame, given the circumstances...lets get real

[DanielSon 0]

So the man law is, he pays up or we cut off his balls? right?

[ShardCark 0]

your naieve if you dont think poker is mental warfare...no teams just you and 9 other players that want your money..... he had top 2, flipped over his cards.... just think of this as not calling fouls with basketball with your boys..... you dont go by the rules but if it is that obvious you enforce it..... he was right not to pay...are you serious try that in any poker game not filled with 18 yr olds....you sir are nieve misinformed or just a plain vagina.... wow what a silly post, if he got away with this, good for him, nah not good for him at all, shame on anyone who was there....this is such a ridiculously obvious topic

I never said he was right not to pay. Only that technically, since he didn't state that he was calling, or move chips into the pot, that he can't, and shouldn't, be forced to pay.We all know he meant to call. He thought he was throwing the winning hand in the other guys face. I think this displays his lack of character, bad upbringing, or whatever else people may want to call it.Also, next time you go off on an insult tangent, try to actually spell the insults correctly, or at least consistently. No one in this game is 18. Most players are in their mid-30s

[Incubus77546 0]

He beat him... straight up.pay heem. pay zat man his money

QFT

[NEWBIEX10 0]

he just pays...violence would be last resort, lets just hope from peer pressure from everone therecardshark ................wow ............... that is all(btw if you think im gonna spell right at 4am you are for sure a newb here)

[jrbrown1548 0]

You seem a little misguided here. For starters, the violence I've read about that Doyle has written has mostly been bandits robbing the game. Also, if you think poker is warfare, you should join the military. They'll teach you about warfare.If the kid had SAID "call" and then refused to pay, yes, I'd be in favor of forcing him to pay up. But, in this case, he technically has the right not to pay. It violates the spirit of the rules, but follows the letter.

ditto....real cheap, but yes, he is right, but im not saying that he cant kick the shizzit outta him. Just not invite him back if the table is strongly against him. You also need to set the rules straight next time as house games have different rules, and this is probably one of them, about flipping cards up. Technically in a cash game, even DN has said this in his blog that he has flipped cards up before making a decision. It used to be allowed in tourneys, but now its not allowed.So point is, yeah he has a right to be pissed, but technically its his own fault

[Dhall901 0]

He flipped his cards up, he called. Take his chips, bust his head, invite him back regularly, repeat as necessary.Cheers

[simo_8ball 0]

Change the situation to one where there is no history between the players, and the ruling is obvious. One guy pushes and the other guy flips over his cards ready to call. He does not say call. Flipping over his cards does not constitute a call.The guy is obviously someone you do not want in the game, but you can't (and you shouldn't) force him to pay in this situation. Just don't invite him back.

[Men the Hellmuth 0]

i think this has been stated already but.... the guy is clearly angle shooting, clearly caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is looking for any excuse not to pay up. That being said however, the other gentleman should of never flipped up his cards until either the other player said call or he moved his chips past his cards into the area of the pot. Basically the player with KK cost himself a bigger pot but the player with KQ cost himself his reputation because for now on he will never be trusted again in that game and other games in that same area because poker players love telling these kind of stories. A person of character would of paid.. but then again a person of character would of never talked **** all night and wouldnt of flipped up his cards in an arrogant manner like he outplayed the guy...... IMHO

[psujohn 0]

I think it's fairly evident from the OP that the intent was to call and not to flip up his cards looking for a reaction. And given that the jerk never actually did anything to constitute a call the guy with KK was wrong to flip up his cards.The host needs to simply say:You have a choice- pay the man and stop being an *** or- cashout and never come backIf it's a cash game I'd let him cash out what he had. Tourney refund the buyin. You might also mention that in a less friendly game he'd get has *** beat and his money taken.And if you think that Doyle and the old timers never faced threats of violence and actual violence from the players in their games you're sadly mistaken.

[greatwhite 0]

I might be wrong here. If you flip your cards over before you put your chips in the pot or say call isn't it a dead hand? I think this is the rules now. However, in the old days you were allowed to do this to get a read on your opponent. Therefore the guy was technically right. I might not allow him back still. I wouldn't want this kind of people in my home game.