Sng, Ak Vs 22

[crimethink_ 0]

Inspired by a recent post...just curious to see the response. Never posted a poll before, so hopefully I didn't screw it up.

[XXEddie 0]

22-noits seriosuly a coin flipQQ-maybeim about 58% but thats still not very much........but seriously, would this ever happen?

[crimethink_ 0]

22-noits seriosuly a coin flipQQ-maybeim about 58% but thats still not very much........but seriously, would this ever happen?

It's the concept that's more important than the situation. I suppose I could have used a more realistic example, but this illustrates the point well, I think.

[turd ferguson 1]

I may never post here again. This is just embarrassing.

[crimethink_ 0]

I may never post here again. This is just embarrassing.

In other words, you would call with 22?

[natan106 0]

If you think you are much better than them ability wise fold the 22, you gotta call with the qq though. You have some of their straight outs, and the board can't 2 pair and counterfeit you. If you think you are outclassed poker wise, I say call with the 22 coin flip.

[ricker 0]

Can I have the last two minutes of my life back?

[PMJackson21 0]

http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archi...5093&m_id=65576

[SweetDaddyFreak 0]

I may never post here again. This is just embarrassing.

God Dammit

[crimethink_ 0]

http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archi...5093&m_id=65576

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/tou...&p=50%2C30%2C20

[Billy 0]

I may never post here again. This is just embarrassing.

You still remain my favorite poster. Please don't go.

[Vick12 0]

http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archi...5093&m_id=65576

PM...this is general....please stop posting nonsense!

[crimethink_ 0]

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/tou...&p=50%2C30%2C20

Alsohttp://www.propokertools.com/simulator/tou...&p=50%2C30%2C20andhttp://www.propokertools.com/simulator/tou...&p=50%2C30%2C20

[PMJackson21 0]

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/tou...&p=50%2C30%2C20

Not quite sure your point?Although, I did find this disclaimer amusing: "Warning - this is fairly new code and has not been extensively tested. Use at your own risk - there is no guarantee that the results are correct...."

[crimethink_ 0]

Not quite sure your point?Although, I did find this disclaimer amusing: "Warning - this is fairly new code and has not been extensively tested. Use at your own risk - there is no guarantee that the results are correct...."

It's ICM. My point is that you should not call with 22 or even QQ, because it is more -EV than folding in this spot.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

Can I have the last two minutes of my life back?

Are you saying it took you 2 minutes to read that? If so....Wow.

[sixhands 0]

Can I have the last two minutes of my life back?

no

[PMJackson21 0]

It's ICM. My point is that you should not call with 22 or even QQ, because it is more -EV than folding in this spot.

If all you are considering is the math of the situation, then you are correct. Those calculations do not take into account the benefits a good player recieves from having twice as many chips as the rest of the table however, which is what Matt's article attempted to do.

[tripdeuces 0]

Nice Article PM

[crimethink_ 0]

If all you are considering is the math of the situation, then you are correct. Those calculations do not take into account the benefits a good player recieves from having twice as many chips as the rest of the table however, which is what Matt's article attempted to do.

Unfortunately, Matt's article does not go into payout structures at all, something that is extremely important to note in this situation and others like it. Note that if the winner of the SNG gets all the money, then you ought to call with 22.

[offset 0]

http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archi...5093&m_id=65576

This logic applies to large tournaments with top heavy payout structures, not sngs in which half the field cashes.That said, I also think calling is generally the correct play.

[crimethink_ 0]

This applies to large tournamnets, not sngs in which half the field cashes.

Exactly. Matros assumes that the player's goal is to win the event: "How do you win this tournament? By getting all the chips, of course! This means that if you calculate your chances of doubling up 10 times, you will calculate your chances of winning the event." Your goal, however (Assuming you want to make as much money as possible in the tourney), should not be to win, but to maximize EV. The effect of this is negligible at the beginning of a large tournament, but pronounced in a SNG with a relatively flat payout structure.

That said, I also think calling is generally the correct play.

Why?

[offset 0]

Why?

If I have less than the biggest stack at the table the amount of chips I can win on one hand is limited by my stack size. When I have the biggest stack I maximize the amount of chips I can win with a nut or near nut hand. Most people say that the advantage of the bigstack is that he can steal more pots, but that is not always true.Also, this sng is top heavy. The fact that I have a skill advantage over the other players does not matter because if I bust I can just enter another one and have a skill advantage in that.

[crimethink_ 0]

If I have less than the biggest stack at the table the amount of chips I can win on one hand is limited by my stack size. When I have the biggest stack I maximize the amount of chips I can win with a nut or near nut hand. Most people say that the advantage of the bigstack is that he can steal more pots, but that is not always true.Also, this sng is top heavy. The fact that I have a skill advantage over the other players does not matter because if I bust I can just enter another one and have a skill advantage in that.

So you would make a relatively -EV play simply because if you win, you may be able to gain more chips in the future by making relatively +EV plays? That seems like pretty flawed logic.The only real reasons (as far I can tell) that one could use to argue for making a relatively -EV play are (a) the play sets up relatively +EV plays in the future, enough to offset the cost on this particular hand, and (b) on close decisions where relative skill comes into play. 22 is an easy fold here, for any player. QQ is a fold for most players, I would think.

[hotbacon 0]

Do we have an advantage over the table in terms of skill?How fast will the blinds move up?This looks like a fold.