Roark_8 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)Preflop: Hero is CO with [Qc], [Qh]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.Flop: (8.50 SB) [8s], [5s], [6c] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.Turn: (6.25 BB) [9s] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero...I played this as I thought Miller would recommend, waiting for the turn to protect your hand. And when the ultimate scare card comes on the turn, no way I can play it any further, right? I just felt like I should pop it somewhere, but never got a chance to and I felt all weak afterwards. Any thoughts? Am I misreading that section and I need to raise that flop? Link to post Share on other sites
Mezzo 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm raising that flop.With 2 spades and a straight possibility out there, I want to charge draws the max. Plus you may get weak A's and K's to fold. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nice hand.Raising the flop there might blow BB out of the hand, but it won't chase MP1 out.Got to fold that turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Roark_8 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm raising that flop.With 2 spades and a straight possibility out there, I want to charge draws the max. Plus you may get weak A's and K's to fold.But isn't that the point of waiting for the turn? By raising the flop, people are still correct to chase, while raising the turn on a safe card forces your opponent to make an error and chase when they shouldn't? My question is whether I'm applying this theory in the wrong spot. Pot size on the flop is 10SB when the action is to me on the flop, where as it would be 7-8BB when its to me on the turn. Is that difference enough to wait? Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 screw protectingI raise the flop for value/information.you are not in a good pos to protect on the flop or the turn given guy in betweenturn is a fold. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 When Ed Miller was talking about this, he was talking about situations where youre equity either plummets to almost zero or shoots up huge depending on the turn card. With qq you cut out a lot of the over outs that he assumes youre opponents to have over you (the 10 10 hand on page 187 im assuming). I'm seeing some kind of ratio in my head of your equity now versus what your equity could be on the turn and how likely it is to go either way taking into account the current pot size. So with qq, a raise might be more profitible on the flop, since your equity is less likely to go down. I'm raising that flop.With 2 spades and a straight possibility out there, I want to charge draws the max. Plus you may get weak A's and K's to fold.I'm looking for a great post on 2+2 by Ed Miller about this, but I can't find it. Someone else will know what I'm talking about and hopefully link to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Roark_8 0 Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 When Ed Miller was talking about this, he was talking about situations where youre equity either plummets to almost zero or shoots up huge depending on the turn card. With qq you cut out a lot of the over outs that he assumes youre opponents to have over you (the 10 10 hand on page 187 im assuming). I'm seeing some kind of ratio in my head of your equity now versus what your equity could be on the turn and how likely it is to go either way taking into account the current pot size. So with qq, a raise might be more profitible on the flop, since your equity is less likely to go down. I'm looking for a great post on 2+2 by Ed Miller about this, but I can't find it. Someone else will know what I'm talking about and hopefully link to it.Thanks, this makes sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites
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