Q 10 S00000ted

[Blink20 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)UTG ($65.50)MP ($107.35)Button ($121.60)Hero ($100)BB ($8.85)Preflop: Hero is SB with [Qs], [Ts]. UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Button raises to $5, Hero calls $4.50, 1 fold, UTG folds.Flop: ($12) [Td], [As], [6s] (2 players)Hero bets $11, Button calls $11.Turn: ($34) [3h] (2 players)Hero bets $31, Button calls $31.River: ($96) [Qc] (2 players)Hero bets $53 (All-In), Button calls $53.Final Pot: $202

[Dratj 0]

I wouldn't have called the preflop raise. otherwise the rest looks good.

[Blink20 0]

I wouldn't have called the preflop raise. otherwise the rest looks good.

suited connectors and one gappers are great to take flops with when playing with deep stacks in nl, same reason you call with pocket pairs , people get stubborn with their big hands.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

suited connectors and one gappers are great to take flops with when playing with deep stacks in nl, same reason you call with pocket pairs , people get stubborn with their big hands.

I agree, however not in first position, or OOP for that matter.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

I wouldn't have called the preflop raise. otherwise the rest looks good.

yeah really agree with this one

[Scott3705 0]

What are you doing w/ a turn raise?

[DonkSlayer 1]

AQ and A10 annihilate you. Villain flops a set, acts the same way.Meh, I slow the fck down on the turn personally, you found out he has an A. You just got lucky on this one and sucked out, apparently. I assume you wouldn't have posted if you didn't win it.

[Wilderness 0]

Suited and gap connectors are great, but as someone mentioned, not out of position. I also prefer smaller suited/gap connectors so that you have less chance of being dominated. Good bet on the flop. You're running into trouble on the turn though, since you haven't improved at all and are quite likely behind. You know you've got to be behind when he calls the turn bet (a re-raise here and you either have to let go of your hand or make a bad call). So did you get lucky on the river against AJ/AK or did you lose to something like a set/AQ/A10?

[Scott3705 0]

Anyone like a C/R push here while we are confident we can get 'em in with atleast 50% equity most of the time?Kinda the reason I brought up the turn. We're playing this OOP and I hate playing this turn UI.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Anyone like a C/R push here while we are confident we can get 'em in with atleast 50% equity most of the time?Kinda the reason I brought up the turn. We're playing this OOP and I hate playing this turn UI.

I hate it because I think we're beat most of the time. Does the villain really have KK-QQ here? C/R makes an AK have to call us, A10/AQ are already ahead, as is a set. I just don't see the implied odds working for us here.

[Scott3705 0]

I hate it because I think we're beat most of the time. Does the villain really have KK-QQ here? C/R makes an AK have to call us, A10/AQ are already ahead, as is a set. I just don't see the implied odds working for us here.

I confused the stack sizes. I thought UTG was the villian in this case, which would make me wanna go this route. the turn is still a weird place for me. What are you planning on doing to a push? We can't call. and we know this guys got a pretty good piece of this if he hasn't attempted to define his hand.

[shpaget 0]

suited connectors and one gappers are great to take flops with when playing with deep stacks in nl, same reason you call with pocket pairs , people get stubborn with their big hands.

You're out of position and your stacks aren't nearly deep enough to make this play worthwhile in the long run.The number of times you will hit QT hard AND be facing a hand big enough to stick around and pay you off AND not outdraw you by the river are too rare with a stack that is only 10 times the pf pot.You're better off doing this with 57 suited where your straight won't run into a bigger straight, or your two pair won't often make a straight for someone else, but could easily be paid off by an overpair.But in this situation I want stacks at $200 before I start making plays like this.

[Blink20 0]

AQ and A10 annihilate you. Villain flops a set, acts the same way.Meh, I slow the fck down on the turn personally, you found out he has an A. You just got lucky on this one and sucked out, apparently. I assume you wouldn't have posted if you didn't win it.

"I assume you wouldn't have posted if you didnt win it."I almost forgot why I stopped posting in poker forums, and you just reminded me, thanks. This is very simple to understand but most people that post dont get it, It does not matter what the villian ends up having, the results of the hand DO NOT MATTER. Its a very simple truth in poker which many people ignore and get too emotional about the game.Villian could have had AA here or AK, thats up to the discussion of the hand, the way the bets are analyzed on each street so that we can put a range of hands on the villian and the reason for posting a hand on a forum isn't to win bragging points, isn't to point out you won or lost a huge pot, its to open up for discussion whether you make the correct strategic play based on all the information in the hand, the information of the results time and time again clouds the judgement of the people analyzing the hand. So next time dont assume anything, if you post because you win or lose good for you, but for any of your thoughts on a hand to be taken seriously, dont post that bullshit.Anyway...AS far as my thoughts while I was playing this hand.I will take a suited connector or one gapper out of position against a raise, this is generally because the limit I play at, 100 NL six max on stars, people get stubborn with their hands and you can generally knock down a good preflop starting hand, atleast what people deem as good, ie the Phil Hellmuths Omg im only gonna play the top ten hands strategy, and you can take speculative hands and make them pay.I would if given the opportunity get all my money in on this flop, there's just too many outs and also a good way to win on the three bet overbet by him folding, because even though I say people get stubborn they can still make laydowns and flopping pair with a flush draw is enough outs to see it to the river. So I pot the flop, happy if he raises because then Ill just push in. If he has a set, I still have outs and can write the insignificant -EV of being up against a set off to the fact my loose/action image is enhanced, and for the % of times he would fold.AS far as the turn, the flop call doesn't mean he has a monster. Alot of people will make calls when they have position to see how the bettor will act again out of position. I generally with hold myself to making plays in position because I've found people play a much stronger game against you when they have position on you, which is a pretty obvious statement. However, when I have a speculative holding this strong, even out of position, I have plenty of reasons to fire away on the turn. 1) His holding doesn't need to be that strong to just call in position on the flop. 2) I still have a lot of outs against many holdings. 3) If he calls me on the turn, then that means when I hit I will most likely get paid since his hand is strong enough to call that much of a bet. If I get raised on the turn, then it comes down to the simple math of the situation. What exactly do I put him on if he pushes in on the turn, and I would probably limit myself to just the flush draw, maybe a couple 1/2 outs for the two pair/ trip possibilities. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, then its an easy fold, I obviously need somewhere around 5-1 on my money to make the call with one card to come. So asking whether I call an all in raise is a simple answer, thats when the decision just becomes automatically down to the math.THE RIVER, I hit, sort of. A lof of times a situation comes up on the river where I hold a decent hand, and the villian could have a better hand that he will make a move on the river, or have a worse hand that he will just check. If it comes down to the point that I think I will call an all in, which Im pretty confident I would need to pay him off after coming this far, then I am better off pushing because if he's come this far with a worse hand, I dont want him to take the free showdown when he's behind, and make me pay when he's ahead. So my main question on the river, would I call a big bet of his, I think I need to, so I opt to push instead of check even though I didn't hit my perfect card, I still improved. Imo, his range includes sets, aces up, and ace big with some possible A 10 and even lower, considering his position, his lack of raising which could obv mean a big hand but also a weaker ace that he would pay me off more than anyone else at the table, since I represent the more action type player. I mainly posted this hand for the river play, Im comfortable with the turn. His range of hands is the most important considering my move on the river, and if the only hands i can beat are the A K, A J , A 10 and then get beat by sets and aces up, Im not sure my push is worth it. How many hands do I need to beat compared to how many hands beat me to make this push worthwhile, if that makes sense?

[Scott3705 0]

Villian could have had AA here or AK, thats up to the discussion of the hand, the way the bets are analyzed on each street so that we can put a range of hands on the villian and the reason for posting a hand on a forum isn't to win bragging points, isn't to point out you won or lost a huge pot, its to open up for discussion whether you make the correct strategic play based on all the information in the hand, the information of the results time and time again clouds the judgement of the people analyzing the hand. So next time dont assume anything, if you post because you win or lose good for you, but for any of your thoughts on a hand to be taken seriously, dont post that bullshit.Anyway...AS far as my thoughts while I was playing this hand.I will take a suited connector or one gapper out of position against a raise, this is generally because the limit I play at, 100 NL six max on stars, people get stubborn with their hands and you can generally knock down a good preflop starting hand, atleast what people deem as good, ie the Phil Hellmuths Omg im only gonna play the top ten hands strategy, and you can take speculative hands and make them pay.I would if given the opportunity get all my money in on this flop, there's just too many outs and also a good way to win on the three bet overbet by him folding, because even though I say people get stubborn they can still make laydowns and flopping pair with a flush draw is enough outs to see it to the river. So I pot the flop, happy if he raises because then Ill just push in. If he has a set, I still have outs and can write the insignificant -EV of being up against a set off to the fact my loose/action image is enhanced, and for the % of times he would fold.AS far as the turn, the flop call doesn't mean he has a monster. Alot of people will make calls when they have position to see how the bettor will act again out of position. I generally with hold myself to making plays in position because I've found people play a much stronger game against you when they have position on you, which is a pretty obvious statement. However, when I have a speculative holding this strong, even out of position, I have plenty of reasons to fire away on the turn. 1) His holding doesn't need to be that strong to just call in position on the flop. 2) I still have a lot of outs against many holdings. 3) If he calls me on the turn, then that means when I hit I will most likely get paid since his hand is strong enough to call that much of a bet. If I get raised on the turn, then it comes down to the simple math of the situation. What exactly do I put him on if he pushes in on the turn, and I would probably limit myself to just the flush draw, maybe a couple 1/2 outs for the two pair/ trip possibilities. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, then its an easy fold, I obviously need somewhere around 5-1 on my money to make the call with one card to come. So asking whether I call an all in raise is a simple answer, thats when the decision just becomes automatically down to the math.THE RIVER, I hit, sort of. A lof of times a situation comes up on the river where I hold a decent hand, and the villian could have a better hand that he will make a move on the river, or have a worse hand that he will just check. If it comes down to the point that I think I will call an all in, which Im pretty confident I would need to pay him off after coming this far, then I am better off pushing because if he's come this far with a worse hand, I dont want him to take the free showdown when he's behind, and make me pay when he's ahead. So my main question on the river, would I call a big bet of his, I think I need to, so I opt to push instead of check even though I didn't hit my perfect card, I still improved. Imo, his range includes sets, aces up, and ace big with some possible A 10 and even lower, considering his position, his lack of raising which could obv mean a big hand but also a weaker ace that he would pay me off more than anyone else at the table, since I represent the more action type player. I mainly posted this hand for the river play, Im comfortable with the turn. His range of hands is the most important considering my move on the river, and if the only hands i can beat are the A K, A J , A 10 and then get beat by sets and aces up, Im not sure my push is worth it. How many hands do I need to beat compared to how many hands beat me to make this push worthwhile, if that makes sense?

this piece confused me... get to that later.1) playing 6 max regularly, I would be fairly confident that you have found out that playing these types of speculative hands OOP leaks chips. I love flops as much as the next guy, but in SH'ed, these types of hands go down when you're calling a raise OOP. Especially when you start playing the big card suited one gappers. You said so yourself, people get stubborn and don't want to fold their hands. And you will rarely ever pick up a flop w/ this type of hand that will be ahead. You will be counting on fold equity to make your hand +EV. So you're looking to be able to push this flop because your 50/50 and he may fold, but if you hit a flop like akj or qqa, he's not going to fold. Let me know if this is unclear. Think i may have not put it very well. 2) the turn: I appreciate the reason for betting here. It's a situation I have a hard time dealing w/ on a hand to hand basis. Sometimes they're being stubborn or are drawing and will fold to another bet and sometimes they really have a hand. All hands taken as a whole. you're usually getting a call or riase and you're beat and it's going to cost you more than you win by firing at this pot again. Read may help. I usually bet this turn too to keep the aggression up,... but I think you and I are both spewing chips doing it in the long run.3) I have no idea why the turn is confusing. The turn is the much more interesting street. The lead push is standard. You only have 1/2 the pot left if your stack.

[MasterLJ 0]

suited connectors and one gappers are great to take flops with when playing with deep stacks in nl, same reason you call with pocket pairs , people get stubborn with their big hands.

If you're in position.OP is OOP with a drawing hand.Fold pre-flop. Seems like you were dominated from the get-go which is why we don't call raises with QT OOP and why *if* we do call raises with QT in position we don't play it for pairs.

[DonkSlayer 1]

"I assume you wouldn't have posted if you didnt win it."I almost forgot why I stopped posting in poker forums, and you just reminded me, thanks. This is very simple to understand but most people that post dont get it, It does not matter what the villian ends up having, the results of the hand DO NOT MATTER. Its a very simple truth in poker which many people ignore and get too emotional about the game.

Brilliant Watson. The very simple truth is, you played this overaggressively OOP, and you will lose in the long run. I was making the point that you were so confident in your writing that you obviously won the hand, even though you're going to lose most often under the same circumstances.

position against a raise, this is generally because the limit I play at, 100 NL six max on stars, people get stubborn with their hands and you can generally knock down a good preflop starting hand, atleast what people deem as good, ie the Phil Hellmuths Omg im only gonna play the top ten hands strategy, and you can take speculative hands and make them pay.

I would if given the opportunity get all my money in on this flop, there's just too many outs and also a good way to win on the three bet overbet by him folding, because even though I say people get stubborn they can still make laydowns and flopping pair with a flush draw is enough outs to see it to the river. So I pot the flop, happy if he raises because then Ill just push in. If he has a set, I still have outs and can write the insignificant -EV of being up against a set off to the fact my loose/action image is enhanced, and for the % of times he would fold.

Except, so many other hands beat you besides a set. That's nice you like to play suited connectors/one gappers, but when you get called on the flop, I would say to slow down. What else does he have here to call you with? Yeah he's IP but you've shown strength here, so he has to have something solid...unless he's a complete donk. Complete donks send our analysis off the pier though, so we can't assume this.

AS far as the turn, the flop call doesn't mean he has a monster. Alot of people will make calls when they have position to see how the bettor will act again out of position.

So maybe villain can bet us off the hand when we've got some money in the pot already and will probably call anything that looks like a bluff with any pair?

I mainly posted this hand for the river play, Im comfortable with the turn. His range of hands is the most important considering my move on the river, and if the only hands i can beat are the A K, A J , A 10 and then get beat by sets and aces up, Im not sure my push is worth it. How many hands do I need to beat compared to how many hands beat me to make this push worthwhile, if that makes sense?

Oh, so we're ARE talking about a range of hands? I thought you were saying we could put him on anything crazy...so I guess we're really just value-betting against the entire deck here, huh?Your last sentence finally does make sense...why didn't you include it in the OP? If that's what you really wanted to know, we could've saved ourselves a lot of grief here. Don't worry though, I already answered your question in my OP. By the time we get to the river, having been called down by a player IP, I think we're fcked. Most of the time. I still don't think this time, I think you wanted to post this hand to show everyone how awesome playing Q10 soooted is. However, most of the time against an average player, you're going to lose.

[krup24 0]

"I assume you wouldn't have posted if you didnt win it."I almost forgot why I stopped posting in poker forums, and you just reminded me, thanks. This is very simple to understand but most people that post dont get it, It does not matter what the villian ends up having, the results of the hand DO NOT MATTER. Its a very simple truth in poker which many people ignore and get too emotional about the game.Villian could have had AA here or AK, thats up to the discussion of the hand, the way the bets are analyzed on each street so that we can put a range of hands on the villian and the reason for posting a hand on a forum isn't to win bragging points, isn't to point out you won or lost a huge pot, its to open up for discussion whether you make the correct strategic play based on all the information in the hand, the information of the results time and time again clouds the judgement of the people analyzing the hand. So next time dont assume anything, if you post because you win or lose good for you, but for any of your thoughts on a hand to be taken seriously, dont post that bullshit.Anyway...AS far as my thoughts while I was playing this hand.I will take a suited connector or one gapper out of position against a raise, this is generally because the limit I play at, 100 NL six max on stars, people get stubborn with their hands and you can generally knock down a good preflop starting hand, atleast what people deem as good, ie the Phil Hellmuths Omg im only gonna play the top ten hands strategy, and you can take speculative hands and make them pay.I would if given the opportunity get all my money in on this flop, there's just too many outs and also a good way to win on the three bet overbet by him folding, because even though I say people get stubborn they can still make laydowns and flopping pair with a flush draw is enough outs to see it to the river. So I pot the flop, happy if he raises because then Ill just push in. If he has a set, I still have outs and can write the insignificant -EV of being up against a set off to the fact my loose/action image is enhanced, and for the % of times he would fold.AS far as the turn, the flop call doesn't mean he has a monster. Alot of people will make calls when they have position to see how the bettor will act again out of position. I generally with hold myself to making plays in position because I've found people play a much stronger game against you when they have position on you, which is a pretty obvious statement. However, when I have a speculative holding this strong, even out of position, I have plenty of reasons to fire away on the turn. 1) His holding doesn't need to be that strong to just call in position on the flop. 2) I still have a lot of outs against many holdings. 3) If he calls me on the turn, then that means when I hit I will most likely get paid since his hand is strong enough to call that much of a bet. If I get raised on the turn, then it comes down to the simple math of the situation. What exactly do I put him on if he pushes in on the turn, and I would probably limit myself to just the flush draw, maybe a couple 1/2 outs for the two pair/ trip possibilities. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, then its an easy fold, I obviously need somewhere around 5-1 on my money to make the call with one card to come. So asking whether I call an all in raise is a simple answer, thats when the decision just becomes automatically down to the math.THE RIVER, I hit, sort of. A lof of times a situation comes up on the river where I hold a decent hand, and the villian could have a better hand that he will make a move on the river, or have a worse hand that he will just check. If it comes down to the point that I think I will call an all in, which Im pretty confident I would need to pay him off after coming this far, then I am better off pushing because if he's come this far with a worse hand, I dont want him to take the free showdown when he's behind, and make me pay when he's ahead. So my main question on the river, would I call a big bet of his, I think I need to, so I opt to push instead of check even though I didn't hit my perfect card, I still improved. Imo, his range includes sets, aces up, and ace big with some possible A 10 and even lower, considering his position, his lack of raising which could obv mean a big hand but also a weaker ace that he would pay me off more than anyone else at the table, since I represent the more action type player. I mainly posted this hand for the river play, Im comfortable with the turn. His range of hands is the most important considering my move on the river, and if the only hands i can beat are the A K, A J , A 10 and then get beat by sets and aces up, Im not sure my push is worth it. How many hands do I need to beat compared to how many hands beat me to make this push worthwhile, if that makes sense?

Since your willing to put your whole stack in on the flop then why aren't you check raising. He's definitely going to bet, right. And one thing your leaving out is reads on ur opponent cause this will really dictate the most profitable play.River play is standard I believe. You've got nearly 50% of ur stack in the pot. I mean you can't check it here. This is why being OOP sucks here. If you were in position we could say check it down if villian checks. If I'm the villian I play AA virtually the same way that he did. $5 is a strong pf raise and he just lets you hang urself.

[GrinderMJ 0]

This is DEFINITELY -Ev preflop, you are not as deep as you think, 100bb is not that deep in a cash game, that's standard buy in. Unless this dude is a huge donkey willing to massively overbet with weak holdings, this should be an instamuck preflop

[HurricaneKyle 0]

I don't like the preflop call with this specific hand. I would have no problem if the hand is 56,67,78 or 89 if you are really wanting to see a flop. But QT is one of those hands in NL when you call OOP and hit a flop where you will have to play the best hand meekly when we flop it and usually fold to solid players when they re-raise big. In the long run this specific situation and hand are heavily -EV.Even though I'm not crazy about the preflop play, I like the flop play. However, I think we have a better alternative. Check raising all in is better in my opinion because we have to be happy with a pair and flush draw. This is pretty much the flop we wanted. If he has KK,QQ, or JJ then he is folding to a c/r. If he does call, then its not the end of the world because we have nine outs and possibly 5 more. We're 50-50 against A K for example.Another reason this is the better play is because we are going to miss the turn out of position a lot and if we check raise all in on the flop, we are spared from this dillemma and we are guarenteed to see two cards which is what you probably want with your hand.