Quiz Question #19

[Mercury69 3]

Fold. You might be beaten by a bigger set, which leads to the possibility of being beaten by a bigger boat, not to mention the flush possibilities that render your 3 Q's virtually useless.

[LuckyChewy 0]

You are playing Omaha H/L in the big game and are dealt Q-Q-10-9 doublesuited on the button. The first player in raises and gets three callers. You also call on the button. The big blind re-raises and all players call. The flop comes A K Q and you don't flop a front door or back door flush draw. The big blind bets out, the first limper raises, the second limper re-raises, and the player in the cut off seat re-raises. There is one bet left as you are playing with five bets per street. What would you do?

How can you do anything but fold? BB probably has AA but his range is much wider than that, limper might have a combo draw or KK and maybe JT, second limper probably has JT, and CO even more likely has JT. So each player before you more shows more and more strength and it's progresively more likely you're behind and dead to 4 cards(1 queen and 3 clean jacks) let alone re-draws. I'm no Omaha Hi/Lo expert but anything other than instantly folding seems criminal to me. I'd love to be persuaded to do otherwise, though.-Andrew

[LooseCannon 0]

Normally, I would jam with this hand to punish anyone chasing a backdoor low draw (and the lack of a backdoor low draw or a backdoor flush draw affects the value of this hand).However, you have at least two opponents willing to make it three bets on this flop. The nut flush draw is likely among the hands you are facing and the field is too wide, so you don't have any bluff outs. You're going to have the best hand to win, and you probably will need to show it down. No one will be bluffing here in a multiway pot. The BB and the first player in just need some sort of high hand for a bet and a raise here. To make it three or four bets against players giving you action, you need either the nut flush draw, a set, or a flopped straight (with redraws). Since you have a ten in your hand, it's less likely that you have multiple players here ramming and jamming with the nut straight, and in any case most players would wait until there is a safe card on the turn, unless they have redraws. It is also less likely that multiple players have JT in their hands, since they would often play it in hands like KQJT or AKJT or QJT9 (and might fold hands like A3JT), and you hold cards that make it less likely.Either someone has a higher set (or AK, meaning that your only boat draw is a running pair) or they possess blockers if you are trying for a boat against a made straight. In either case, you're not in very good shape.So, I would probably fold, but I'd play if there were fewer people in the hand.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Normally, I would jam with this hand to punish anyone chasing a backdoor low draw (and the lack of a backdoor low draw or a backdoor flush draw affects the value of this hand).So, I would probably fold, but I'd play if there were fewer people in the hand.

You have a lot of gamble in you.

[Briguy 0]

cuin4years says fold. Now I'm confused. I was originally going to say fold, because drawing to 3 outs for a probable split sucks, and the odds of coolering AA with the case Q are pretty damn low, but that's the same answer as 4years.

[LooseCannon 0]

You have a lot of gamble in you.

In a heads up pot, this probably going to be capped against the right opponent. The hand is probably ahead of the range of hands that the first two players are playing. It's the re-raise and the re-re-raise that are troublesome here and make me want to fold.

[David_Nicoson 1]

You are playing Omaha H/L in the big game and are dealt Q-Q-10-9 doublesuited on the button. The first player in raises and gets three callers. You also call on the button. The big blind re-raises and all players call. The flop comes A K Q and you don't flop a front door or back door flush draw. The big blind bets out, the first limper raises, the second limper re-raises, and the player in the cut off seat re-raises. There is one bet left as you are playing with five bets per street. What would you do?

These players you're referring to as limpers cold-called raises preflop, right?So the prefop raiser folds to one bet? What position is he in?Oh, nevermind. Fold.

[Nikki_N 17]

I would've folded this hand preflop to a raise and a call. I may play this game too tight, though.

[Balloon guy 158]

I've reconsidered my answer.The only thing that makes me think this is a total fold, is the number of people betting this flop, might push the numbers in our favor. Meaning the cards that beat us are probably spread evenly through the 4 other players. Preflop, all this action in H/L says alot of Ace Duece, Ace Trey hands. Even if there are only two of these, then the Ace set is impossible.If people are chasing club draw, then there are probably alot of burned clubs here.The only hand to really worry about is KK. We are behind the made straights, but they will not be able to stand the action if the board pairs. And we have one of the 10s needed for the straight.With the pot odds, and the chances for a boat to be the winning hand, I think a cap is okay here.Hey, it's only money.

punch david benyamine in the face because he is french, then fold. simultaneously saying that you learned how to fold under pressure by watching France on the history channel

That was funny

[navybuttons 15]

i think most of you play too much online and don't know how fast some players can play in B&M casinos. you shouldn't over look that, or over look the fact that a lot of the players in the big game play some really tricky ways.obviously, it's a fold but i would probably go into the tank (for just a few seconds) in this game before mucking. calling gives us too much (oh whats the term?) reverse equity? the term where when we boat it is going to cost us more.folding preflop is a rather silly suggestion if there's any sort of ante in the game.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

This is LO8 right? Is this an imaginary situation? What a bunch of degenerated gamblers!

[Chamonyx 0]

i think most of you play too much online and don't know how fast some players can play in B&M casinos. you shouldn't over look that, or over look the fact that a lot of the players in the big game play some really tricky ways.

Exactly - especially given the reads that DN has provided us with on the O8 play in that game.Easy Cap IMO....You have the button, use it.A raise and 3 calls pre-flop suggests that BB was probably reraising with a premium low hand, and the lack of RR preflop suggests that UTG does not have AA. The one hand I am afraid of here is KK.Post flop: BB continues, UTG raises his 2 pair or weak flush draw, next 2 reraise their JT, nut flush draw or possibly KK (or bluff with JJ).When you cap, BB is facing 4 bets cold for a low only draw (or non-nut flush) and probably folds, UTG realises his 2 pair are no good and the other 2 will call. so you likely have a pot of about 33.5 small bets going into the turn with 3 players. Assuming all the aces are dead, you have 4 outs twice and another 3 outs once to scoop if you are against a str8 and a flush draw. So, at worst you are about 3:1 against. When you are faced with the flop situation, capping is offering you about 5.5:1; assume a BB goes in on turn and river and the final odds will be 9:36.5 or about 4:1.The 2 things that can screw this up is if one of the players have KK, or if they both have JT and it is bet and raised before it gets to you on the turn. However, this is offset at least partially by the chance that neither have the str8 and so they will check the turn to the capper, in which case you can bet and represent the str8. You also have the (likely) split outs of 3 J's.In O8 games like these, betting is often more about getting rid of players than it is about having the current best hand.

[navybuttons 15]

Exactly - especially given the reads that DN has provided us with on the O8 play in that game.Easy Cap IMO....You have the button, use it.A raise and 3 calls pre-flop suggests that BB was probably reraising with a premium low hand, and the lack of RR preflop suggests that UTG does not have AA. The one hand I am afraid of here is KK.Post flop: BB continues, UTG raises his 2 pair or weak flush draw, next 2 reraise their JT, nut flush draw or possibly KK (or bluff with JJ).When you cap, BB is facing 4 bets cold for a low only draw (or non-nut flush) and probably folds, UTG realises his 2 pair are no good and the other 2 will call. so you likely have a pot of about 33.5 small bets going into the turn with 3 players. Assuming all the aces are dead, you have 4 outs twice and another 4 outs once to scoop if you are against a str8 and a flush draw. So, at worst you are about 3:1 against. When you are faced with the flop situation, capping is offering you about 5.5:1; assume a BB goes in on turn and river and the final odds will be 9:36.5 or about 4:1.The 2 things that can screw this up is if one of the players have KK, or if they both have JT and it is bet and raised before it gets to you on the turn. However, this is offset at least partially by the chance that neither have the str8 and so they will check the turn to the capper, in which case you can bet and represent the str8. You also have the (likely) split outs of 3 J's.In O8 games like these, betting is often more about getting rid of players than it is about having the current best hand.

i can't stop thinking about this hand. i've been trying to do the odds but only in my head, especially as it relates if a J comes off on the turn, would KK (without a flush draw) be getting the odds to call what he knows is going to be 5 big bets? but the more i read cham's response the more sense it makes to me. however, if any of the hands are stronger (BB has nut flush draw and 2-3) we are in need of a few gorgeous cards to come off. without any redraws (aside from getting half if a J peels off) i still lay it down.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

OK, my serious question is, since this is LO8, how could so many players have so many high cards? I have no doubt that someone had AAxx, what could be the possible holdings for the others? What happened to the low cards? How could there be so many reraises?

[navybuttons 15]

OK, my serious question is, since this is LO8, how could so many players have so many high cards? I have no doubt that someone had AAxx, what could be the possible holdings for the others? What happened to the low cards? How could there be so many reraises?

in the 2 plus 2 forums greenstein defended his check-raise in that one hand daniel spoke of a while back. i think it kind of relates.anyway i think there could easily be a 2,3 with a weak backdoor flush draw betting here.

[DonkSlayer 1]

OK, my serious question is, since this is LO8, how could so many players have so many high cards? I have no doubt that someone had AAxx, what could be the possible holdings for the others? What happened to the low cards? How could there be so many reraises?

Well, I...::gets distracted by avatar::I think we're essentially drawing to one out that wouldn't be hopeful. There's even a straight flush possibility, which can null our quads. Fold.Although, it seems a bit too easy, so I'm interested to find out the "answer".

[LooseCannon 0]

OK, my serious question is, since this is LO8, how could so many players have so many high cards? I have no doubt that someone had AAxx, what could be the possible holdings for the others? What happened to the low cards? How could there be so many reraises?

The first bet and raise don't have to be particularly strong hands. The first bet could be a relatively weak hand trying to steal the pot hoping to be up against a bunch of low hands. The first raiser could have something like A34Tds and is trying to knock out people with backdoor flush and backdoor nut low and gutshot straight draws. It's the people making it three and four bets on the flop who are scary since, arguably, a player with the nut straight and no redraws to better hands wouldn't bet that way.

[bdc30 0]

Can we not end this charade already??This question wasn't even close, in my estimation...Post an answer, if there is one other than,"duh, fold"and lets move on....lol

[shpaget 0]

There has to be a catch...there has to be...the answer can't be that simple...Cap it - the action has to mean that either all your opponents have AK or they are all playing in the dark.So your queens are good.hehehe

[DB10-2 0]

i guess we're all forgetting that we're on the button this hand. all of this action is likely to knock out some of the draws who will have to call one or more bets cold if we cap, and if players want to push their low hands (which might explain the 2 raises preflop) needing runner runner, let them pay us off.basically, we have to ask if anybody really has us beat RIGHT NOW. the only really likely hands are hands like AA32 and AAKK double suited, and they both have us crushed with a bigger set and maybe a redraw to a flush. also likely is maybe something like AK23 double suited, which we have beat right now.the key is this: my experience in omaha is that decent players raise preflop with both good low and high hands. so, isn't it most likely that two of the other aces are each in the hands of the two preflop raisers, and doesn't this mean that the chances of being up against a set of aces is reasonably low? if so, the next hand we have to worry about is someone holding KK, or JT which is the (very) mortal nuts on this board. remember also: we have a T, making the nut straight less likely and giving us a redraw to the nut straight.could we then cap the betting and get the players holding KKxx and JTxx out of the pot? it'd be an ideal scenario to play heads up against someone with something like AK23 even if they have a spade draw, since we'd curently be winning and have only to worry about the flush draw or a very unlikely A or K redraw to beat our set of queens. would someone without a redraw call one or more bets with the nut straight after this much action? i don't know, but that player would know there were many, many ways to lose the hand.lastly, if we think but aren't sure that we've gotten ourselves heads up against a set of aces and/or a straight, should we fold or plan to make crying calls on two more streets if we don't improve? i think an argument can be made for folding here, but maybe it's not nearly as easy as it looks on its face. maybe capping is the right play and if a flush comes all bets are off for our hand. DN?

[socal73 0]

easy fold.best case scenario is somebody has JT.somebody said you are playing for half the pot. that really doesn't make sense since runner runner low would be needed.but you are against AA or KK.

[yergan 0]

Any chance of the answer soon?

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Any chance of the answer soon?

[ol'number7 0]

Any chance of the answer soon?

[yergan 0]

Got a feeling we might be (understandably) waiting till after the WSOP.