What This A Bad Play?

[Dhall901 0]

1st of all the guy limped (people like to limp with small/medium pairs). You raised with a questionable hand, I like it, u bet the flop, I like it. He raised u, strong, I dont' like ur push. What can he reraise u with? AJ? or a set..ur dominated, I don't like the all in, you could have gotten away from it with a little more discipline. A tough hand, but unless u know the guy is crazy, u gotta lay it down.

[StrippersNBlow 0]

I would like to......lol...... play Madmike everyday.....lol....... for the rest of my life.........lol.....lol......lol..... With headphones on......lol.........lol.......lol........

[Devilkin 0]

"Irrational.....lol..........lol....wow what great poker insight....ok ...guys remember just fold top pair if your reraised.......lol"It really is this simple.Best line I ever heard come from a pro, that has saved me thousands in cash and tournaments."Never go broke with just one pair".Dev

[mx957 0]

Best line I ever heard come from a pro, that has saved me thousands in cash and tournaments."Never go broke with just one pair".Dev

Listen to this advice. You had a KJ offsuit and knew you were in position. You just over played the hand. You have to decide "Is this the hand I want to live or die by?" I think you either need to lay this down to the big re-raise or admit that your read of this "Crazy Loose" player was incorrect. You're calling the hand BS when you were behind every single street is incorrect.

[krup24 0]

for anyone that says they would not lay down top pair , is obviously kidding themselves, obvious he lucked out on the flop and got a set ..its simple as that

I would have layed it down and I am not kidding myselfYour play was bad, wheras your whining is atrocious

[hblask 1]

I just wanted to add my inexperienced and unsuccessful voice to this question: my immediate read as I read through it was to put the guy on AJ, an overpair, or a flopped set, even before I saw the result. No way I risk my tournament on top-pair-second-kicker. Why would I? But then again, I don't win much and tend to get pushed around by the big stack. But with a good chip position I will allow myself to be pushed around so that when I do get a hit it REALLY pays off from the table bully.As for a pro getting busted out in a similar position, it's not really the same game. That's like comparing a pickup game of flag football to the Super Bowl.

[timwakefield 68]

OP, you asked what you could have put him on....well you could have put him on 77, 22, or J7. Try posting in the tourney forum next time.Oh, and don't ask for advice if you don't want it.

[stylez09 0]

OP, you asked what you could have put him on....well you could have put him on 77, 22, or J7. Try posting in the tourney forum next time.Oh, and don't ask for advice if you don't want it.

[fleung22 1]

wow...surprised this has gone on so long......for anyone that says they would not lay down top pair , is obviously kidding themselves, obvious he lucked out on the flop and got a set ..its simple as that, i 've seen similar hands played out like this in tougher competitions and for more money at stack., if you don't believe me go to carplayer.com and check out wpt tournament updates and it will describe hundreds of hands of top tournament pros going all in on top pair heads up and getting outflopped by a set, in fact you can see some great players....falling into traps, thats poker...... i'm not wining about that...or the criticsm..... by the way cards is the "last" thing poker is about, its a people game...this is what Phil ivey, Daniel and brunson say all the time. YOU play the player, "not" your cards. BAx and sheets are great players, i 'm not dogging them. These guys raise and reraise with ANY two cards, and there great player, who also get caught in traps, i've seen it all the time... THATS POKER ... i was merely asking if people are able to read a set of an aggresive player..... you guys should watch some of gus hansens wpt victories, and recent appearance on EPT, geesh this guy is great and he's hard to read because of his table image. Some of the best players in the world get trapped by him..... they hardly fold top pair to hansen offense , regardless of his raises.... sets from AGGRESive players are difficult to read..... tight and solid players are no too hard to read , because they play great most of the time and they "always" have good cards.......for those who say they could read aggressive loose players well, then your probably very successful, but for the rest of us ...its a learning process...its POKER...by the way i said daben is the #1 player at stars NOW.... he's on the top of the tournament leader board for this year.... you can log on to pokerstars and check it yourself......

He lucked out? How do you figure? He was ahead before the flop and then you hung yourself.It just seems like a lot of money to throw in the middle when your hand is vulnerable.

[Shizzmoney 0]

A few thoughts:1) Someone mention this before, but I do like your raise from LP with the KJo, even thought it is against the big stack who is an open limper. You do have the chips to be aggressive, and you are looking to buy the button heads up. Plus if you are re-raised, you most likely have been sandbagged (unless you see this player limp-calling BIG PP) and you can get away from it easier instead of flopping something and getting coolered (because AK, JJ, QQ, and maybe even KK or AA will re-raise you). Good Tournament Hold Em right there......... although I would have raised more. If I am making a play like this, I'm trying to raise the pot, trying to win the hand right there by representing a big pair (and also because our hand is very marginal). There's 475 in the pot after the limper, and you raised it to 450. I would have raised it to 975 (375+150+3x'sBB), although he might have called your bet anyways because of the implied odds to win your whole stack, but at least you're letting him know your serious. With your bet of 450, he only has to call 300 more to potentially win 10K (and after he did, that's usually a big online poker tell that says, "I have a small to medium PP".)2)I like the bet of the flop, you flopped top pair, decent kicker on a safe board, so you don't have to bet out the pot BIG to find out where you are at in the hand. Good board to play small ball with and hope he might chase a gutshot, a set on the turn, or a backdoor flush draw.BUT 3)When you are re-raised here, you have to know you are beat. Try to think, "What does he have and what does he think I have?". There are no apparent draws out there for him to play power poker with, except for a gutshot (like with 109s, 98s, etc). Jordan also makes a great point.....

even if he was loose during the rebuy period you should know he will be tightening up after the rebuy period is over...he banks on ppl like you who still think he is a nut after the rebuy when he is back to playing a more "solid" game.

Not everyone knows this, but it's helpful next time you are in one of these rebuy events that this is the usual "strategy" by most.He limped-called the flop. Then he check raised you. With no big draws out there, I am certain that 90% of the time you are beat here by either AA-QQ, AJ, or a set (which if he does, he probably puts you on AJ, hence why he raised so big - plus if he did minraise, he'd know you might see that as fishy). The size of the re-raise you made is a bad play because you are only called by a hand that beats you. If I was really confused about the hand and really thought he was bluffing, I would have minbetted, although you wouldn't have much chips if you did get called or re-raised after.If you fold, you still have 8627 in chips to play with. If you call, you can only lose unless he is a donk and will call off 8627 more with QJ or below. Think about it.......would you risk your tournament life with just a pair of Jacks with a King kicker?

[fleung22 1]

Think about it.......would you risk your tournament life with just a pair of Jacks with a King kicker?

Isn't it obvious? The OP's answer is "yes"...'cause he DID!

[Vick12 0]

Hi1st...before u insult someone like anselm, why don't you read what he contributes in the TOURNEY STRAT FORUM. If u do stumble on that part of the site, feel free to read the work of Copernicus, Strat, Bizzle, therrinn, Zimmer, Grinder, etc...you may learn something.Also...u say the guy is LAG, yet can't see how on earth he hit that flop harder than u? You don't have to listen to me either...I am just another donk as well. Since you put a ton of stock in the TLB at Stars, (I mean Dabest247 is #1 right now, but he's hardly the #1 online player....hardly) go ahead and look me up....Damauler12. (Somehow I am still in the top 150...how I have no idea!!!) But...I too am a donk for telling u folding to his raise was a good idea and your asstastically large reraise was absolutely atrocious.Oh...and who was the donk in this hand?themadmike....$1 pokerdb on Starshardinda.........$22,931 pokerdb on Stars

[rog 0]

you guys are experts (I guess) of escaping sets ?????????????? lolNOt sure if you guys remember at 2004 wsop when davin anderson (dabest247)<------ #1 tournamnet player on PS now.... busted out when raymer set of 5 ..beat his AA With a dry flop.........

You didn't have AA. You had top pair jacks and 2nd kicker. He potted it after you lead out, so you push your whole stack in? Then you start talking about some "joke". I dont get the joke. You over-played your hand. He got maximum value from his flopped set. Is there anything else to talk about? I'm not an expert at escaping sets, but I dont push on this flop. AJ often plays pretty much the same way. Your push only gets called by hands beating you.

[jowest 0]

shizzmoney that was an excellent reply.Madmike. You mentioned you should play the player and not the cards. Obviously you suck at that.It seems like a pretty obvious fold. Am I the best? Hell no. I am just a better student of the game than you. You are like a 7th year senior.

[fleung22 1]

I find it interesting that there's this thread about how to avoid getting beat by sets.Then there's another thread about how to trap with a set.Did these two guys just play each other or what?!

[SBriand 4]

You were behind the whole hand. Noone got lucky. You just plain lost and made poor decision after poor decision. Will you learn from it? My guess is no since you asked a question and whined like a child when you got responses you didn't want to hear. If you want to learn to play this game then you need to learn the ability to be objective and take the advice and info given. If you just want to fight then you will always be the complete donk that you are showing us you are.

[Simpleton 0]

Was this a bad play .......??? Yes how could i have get away from it???? folded

[themadmike 0]

well ...i'm a bit surprised at the last responses... overall pretty good...Shizzmoney.hblask. Dhall901, probably was the best response that i received.... the only reason that I lashed back was that I was ridiculed by a few guys who said it was an almost "Inconcievable" move on my part. SOme guys make it seem like "OH yeah, i easily lay it down, i wouldn't over bet the pot, i know i'm beat" ....it was to these reponses that i laughed at. I have seen tons of top pros , overbet the pot, mistake reads and play top pair and lose to sets , deep in tournaments...and begining of them. I'll repeat , i'm no way near a pro but even pro's make mistakes, and obviously i did- thats obvious. I was simply curious about the play. For all those who responded with "I easily lay it down there....." remember those words when you go out the same way.....thats pokerbut the last reponses was obviously what i was looking for, shizzmoney and the other guys, there guys obviously know what there talking about and broke it down nicely, for all you other "perfect players" you 'll remember this thread.to the haters:Do any of you "experts" lose? how is that possible?? other than bad beats.....for all the hatersanyone want to play heads up ?? find me on pokerstars , you know my screen name, come and teach me some great poker.... 2-4 centz HU ???...lol....