What This A Bad Play?

[themadmike 0]

Was this a bad play .......??? how could i have get away from it????PokerStars Game #4968805882: Tournament #24673492, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/05/17 - 21:32:13 (ET)Table '24673492 105' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: dohrandalia (6935 in chips) Seat 2: Zupreme (28536 in chips) Seat 3: themadmike (10577 in chips) <----------------------me Seat 4: Jondom22 (19810 in chips) Seat 5: boldnbet (5205 in chips) Seat 6: prit252 (17230 in chips) Seat 7: clau_o3 (10395 in chips) Seat 8: wallstreet89 (20520 in chips) Seat 9: hardinda (32324 in chips) Jondom22: posts small blind 75boldnbet: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to themadmike [Kd Jc]prit252: folds clau_o3: folds wallstreet89: folds hardinda: calls 150dohrandalia: folds Zupreme: folds themadmike: raises 300 to 450Jondom22: folds boldnbet: folds hardinda: calls 300*** FLOP *** [2s Jd 7h]hardinda: checks themadmike: bets 450hardinda: raises 1050 to 1500themadmike: raises 8627 to 10127 and is all-inhardinda: calls 8627themadmike said, "joke"*** TURN *** [2s Jd 7h] [8c]themadmike said, "f ukcking joke"*** RIVER *** [2s Jd 7h 8c] [6s]*** SHOW DOWN ***hardinda: shows [7d 7s] (three of a kind, Sevens)themadmike: shows [Kd Jc] (a pair of Jacks)hardinda collected 21379 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 21379 | Rake 0 Board [2s Jd 7h 8c 6s]Seat 1: dohrandalia folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: Zupreme folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: themadmike (button) showed [Kd Jc] and lost with a pair of JacksSeat 4: Jondom22 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: boldnbet (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 6: prit252 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: clau_o3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: wallstreet89 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: hardinda showed [7d 7s] and won (21379) with three of a kind, SevensTHis guy had 30 rebuys was pushing with trash ,, he was rasiing lot of pots. pretty much a loose player...how do you escape a set in this case???

[Wandigo 1]

You could have just said "nh" and not looked like such a whiner... If you really wanted to see where you stood, you could have raised back a couple thousand and you would have probably got the response you needed to lay it down. He limped in, then was willing to call your 300 raise.. that kind of screams pocket pair to me, or at least from what I've seen from playing a few tournaments.

[woodfrog 0]

First off you may want to change your title, it says "What This A Bad Play".You say this guy was loose, but had he been check raising with garbage a lot? Because he did just limp in early position, and then you get hit with a check raise on the flop? Feels like strength to me, but if he is loose as you say, it would be hard to tell.

[offset 0]

His raise should have signaled that he hit the flop. You vastly overplayed it. Going broke with top pair there is absolutely ridiculous.Not trying to over ridicule, its just my nature.

[DEVZTB05 0]

He hit his money card, you fell in love with top pair k kicker, game over. That happens regularly. You could have easily avoided a big confrontation when he re raised you. Even after that you could have gotten out if instead of pushing the 8500 remaining chips.....you could have went half of that and still escaped. His limp pre flop confused you obviously and his rep as a loose player got you. But it's clear his reads on you were pretty profound as well. You fell in love with a modest hand. You could have picked many better spots with 10k in chips to push...better luck next time

[themadmike 0]

His raise should have signaled that he hit the flop. You vastly overplayed it. Going broke with top pair there is absolutely ridiculous.Not trying to over ridicule, its just my nature.

what can you put him one on the reraise?? what could he have hit?? i dont put him on AJ QQ KK JJ NO Flush draw ??? J10 JQ 9 10 suited???? maybe ...not A 10....probably would have reraised Perhaps maybe the limp was a pocket pair.....but with a loose player .....with a big stack whose been pushing around?? could i have put him on a set?? maybe ......if it was another solid player or tight that i had been seeing the last hour....i would have put them on two pairs or set.....but a loose crazy player ???? i couldnt called...probably would have bet out on forth..

[CaneBrain 95]

what can you put him one on the reraise?? what could he have hit?? i dont put him on AJ QQ KK JJ NO Flush draw ??? J10 JQ 9 10 suited???? maybe ...not A 10....probably would have reraised Perhaps maybe the limp was a pocket pair.....but with a loose player .....with a big stack whose been pushing around?? could i have put him on a set?? maybe ......if it was another solid player or tight that i had been seeing the last hour....i would have put them on two pairs or set.....but a loose cary player ????

you asked what {was} this a bad play? yes it was.

[themadmike 0]

what can you put him one on the reraise?? what could he have hit?? i dont put him on AJ QQ KK JJ NO Flush draw ??? J10 JQ 9 10 suited???? maybe ...not A 10....probably would have reraised Perhaps maybe the limp was a pocket pair.....but with a loose player .....with a big stack whose been pushing around?? could i have put him on a set?? maybe ......if it was another solid player or tight that i had been seeing the last hour....i would have put them on two pairs or set.....but a loose crazy player ???? i couldnt called...probably would have bet out on forth..

you guys are experts (I guess) of escaping sets ?????????????? lolNOt sure if you guys remember at 2004 wsop when davin anderson (dabest247)<------ #1 tournamnet player on PS now.... busted out when raymer set of 5 ..beat his AA With a dry flop.........

[sealster 0]

actually davin anderson busted to raymer with AT vs 66 on an A6x flop not AA on a dry flop which is completely different. I think you overplayed your hand but if he was that loose then you probably go broke most ways you play it, I say just call his C/R and go from there if you think he'll keep bluffing at it.

[irishguy 14]

you guys are experts (I guess) of escaping sets ?????????????? lolNOt sure if you guys remember at 2004 wsop when davin anderson (dabest247)<------ #1 tournamnet player on PS now.... busted out when raymer set of 5 ..beat his AA With a dry flop.........

IMO small to mid sets are the most profitable hand in nl holdem. They can be well disguised and hard to detect. That being said do you really not think that you over played that flop? This is not me trying to be critical and I'm sure I've gone broke on similar hands in the past but use this hand as an reference in the future. The only hand that calls that size of a bet has you beat and you likely could've gotten the needed info for less.

[themadmike 0]

your right ..guess davin fell in love like i did with top pair....similar situation , only difference was he was playing for 4 million dollars first prize...i was playing a 3 dollar rebuy pokerstars tourny.....lol

[GrinderMJ 0]

Just because a guy had 30 rebuys does not mean he is crazy once the rebuy period is over. Remember that. Unless this took place at the very end of the rebuy period or something, but with those stacks I doubt it.

[Jordan 1]

if this is during the rebuy period it's "ok"...if it's afterwards it's a bit questionable.your huge re-raise of his raise is a little much...you obviously couldn't fold there after moving all in...oh well.even if he was loose during the rebuy period you should know he will be tightening up after the rebuy period is over...he banks on ppl like you who still think he is a nut after the rebuy when he is back to playing a more "solid" game.- Jordan

[Canary3 1]

I am no expert at escaping a set but i AM an expert at folding the king jack offsuit preflop in a 3 dollar rebuy tournament..... If players are playing crazy... king jack offsuit is not the hand you want to play for a lot of chips

[themadmike 0]

I am no expert at escaping a set but i AM an expert at folding the king jack offsuit preflop in a 3 dollar rebuy tournament..... If players are playing crazy... king jack offsuit is not the hand you want to play for a lot of chips

please continue here::http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=0#entry1079065you think KJ on the button is a bad call with only a raise 3 ties the blind?? and 2 people in the pot???...lol..... you think thats questionable??...lol.....i got 600 hours of players like sheets bax and other playing garbage... pre and post rebuy....i was in position....in late position on the button

[NarSARSsist 0]

please continue here::http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=0#entry1079065you think KJ on the button is a bad call with only a raise 3 ties the blind?? and 2 people in the pot???...lol..... you think thats questionable??...lol.....i got 600 hours of players like sheets bax and other playing garbage... pre and post rebuy....i was in position....in late position on the button

A little advice. If you're going to ask whether something is a bad play or not, then you shouldn't automatically fire back as soon as someone says something not to your liking.If you think that people are biased because of the result, it's because you really shouldn't post results until it's been discussed.Also, there are a lot of great guys that post advice in the tournament forum, maybe you could try there instead of general.

[GrinderMJ 0]

A little advice. If you're going to ask whether something is a bad play or not, then you shouldn't automatically fire back as soon as someone says something not to your liking.If you think that people are biased because of the result, it's because you really shouldn't post results until it's been discussed.Also, there are a lot of great guys that post advice in the tournament forum, maybe you could try there instead of general.

"was this a bad play?""yes, yes it was""whatever dude, you are a donk noboyd cares about your opinion, i play with all the big online pros"That's how far too many tourney hand questions go

[joelav128 0]

please continue here::http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=0#entry1079065you think KJ on the button is a bad call with only a raise 3 ties the blind?? and 2 people in the pot???...lol..... you think thats questionable??...lol.....i got 600 hours of players like sheets bax and other playing garbage... pre and post rebuy....i was in position....in late position on the button

this mad mike guy seems like an @ss hole...comes in here asking if it was a good play or not and doesn't accept criticism.... seems to me like he is just whining about a "bad beat"

[anselm 0]

THis guy had 30 rebuys was pushing with trash ,, he was rasiing lot of pots. pretty much a loose player...

How many times someone re-bought and/or how they played during that period is almost irrelevant now that you're into the 2nd hour.

you guys are experts (I guess) of escaping sets ?????????????? lol

No, but some of us are experts (I guess) at not going broke with a single pair king kicker when we have an M of 47 and facing a solid check-raise from a player with more chips than us.Furthermore, my advice would also be:1. Raise more PF against a MP limper2. Bet more on the flop -- something like $600ish3. Let me stress it again: you have an M of 47. Stay out of trouble. If you can't stay out of trouble with KJo, then just fold it pre-flop.

ol.....i got 600 hours of players like sheets bax and other playing garbage... pre and post rebuy....

One difference: they're actually good players. Secondly, you tagging Bax and/or Sheets as uber-LAG post-rebuy is just flat-out incorrect. Oh and while we're discussing others, dabest is not the #1 tourney player on Stars.

[themadmike 0]

wow...surprised this has gone on so long......for anyone that says they would not lay down top pair , is obviously kidding themselves, obvious he lucked out on the flop and got a set ..its simple as that, i 've seen similar hands played out like this in tougher competitions and for more money at stack., if you don't believe me go to carplayer.com and check out wpt tournament updates and it will describe hundreds of hands of top tournament pros going all in on top pair heads up and getting outflopped by a set, in fact you can see some great players....falling into traps, thats poker...... i'm not wining about that...or the criticsm..... by the way cards is the "last" thing poker is about, its a people game...this is what Phil ivey, Daniel and brunson say all the time. YOU play the player, "not" your cards. BAx and sheets are great players, i 'm not dogging them. These guys raise and reraise with ANY two cards, and there great player, who also get caught in traps, i've seen it all the time... THATS POKER ... i was merely asking if people are able to read a set of an aggresive player..... you guys should watch some of gus hansens wpt victories, and recent appearance on EPT, geesh this guy is great and he's hard to read because of his table image. Some of the best players in the world get trapped by him..... they hardly fold top pair to hansen offense , regardless of his raises.... sets from AGGRESive players are difficult to read..... tight and solid players are no too hard to read , because they play great most of the time and they "always" have good cards.......for those who say they could read aggressive loose players well, then your probably very successful, but for the rest of us ...its a learning process...its POKER...by the way i said daben is the #1 player at stars NOW.... he's on the top of the tournament leader board for this year.... you can log on to pokerstars and check it yourself......

[Jordan 1]

we call this denial.- Jordan

[anselm 0]

You've moved beyond irrational.You're using other people, in different games, at different times, against different opponents, with different hole cards, with different flops ... to defend your play in this exact situation -- it's just too ridiculous.

[themadmike 0]

You've moved beyond irrational.You're using other people, in different games, at different times, against different opponents, with different hole cards, with different flops ... to defend your play in this exact situation -- it's just too ridiculous.

I moved beyond irrational???? Irrational.....lol..........lol....wow what great poker insight....ok ...guys remember just fold top pair if your reraised.......lolHave you even read poker articles in magazinges...... 50 million people are playing now...poker its said across american...i wonder how many of them playing holdem....ever flopped top pair...?? and are forced into a decision??...probably none..........do you even play poker.....??....lol........... there are similar circumstances for various opponents...... why do poker books even exist ???....lol......whose defending the play???...lol.... i simply asked about a certain SITUATION !! Have you even read poker articles or poker stratedgy...... there are countless books talking about similar situations..... geesh i dont even know why i bother ...anseem your a poker scholar...lol.........i'm simply talking about laying top pair......if you strip it down..but your too Irrational to understand that.... lolbunch of donkeys i don't even know why i bother

[bengy3 0]

wow...surprised this has gone on so long......for anyone that says they would not lay down top pair , is obviously kidding themselves, obvious he lucked out on the flop and got a set ..its simple as that, i 've seen similar hands played out like this in tougher competitions and for more money at stack., if you don't believe me go to carplayer.com and check out wpt tournament updates and it will describe hundreds of hands of top tournament pros going all in on top pair heads up and getting outflopped by a set, in fact you can see some great players....falling into traps, thats poker...... i'm not wining about that...or the criticsm..... by the way cards is the "last" thing poker is about, its a people game...this is what Phil ivey, Daniel and brunson say all the time. YOU play the player, "not" your cards. BAx and sheets are great players, i 'm not dogging them. These guys raise and reraise with ANY two cards, and there great player, who also get caught in traps, i've seen it all the time... THATS POKER ... i was merely asking if people are able to read a set of an aggresive player..... you guys should watch some of gus hansens wpt victories, and recent appearance on EPT, geesh this guy is great and he's hard to read because of his table image. Some of the best players in the world get trapped by him..... they hardly fold top pair to hansen offense , regardless of his raises.... sets from AGGRESive players are difficult to read..... tight and solid players are no too hard to read , because they play great most of the time and they "always" have good cards.......for those who say they could read aggressive loose players well, then your probably very successful, but for the rest of us ...its a learning process...its POKER...by the way i said daben is the #1 player at stars NOW.... he's on the top of the tournament leader board for this year.... you can log on to pokerstars and check it yourself......

How can you make a logical argument and think 7-7 has to suckout to beat k-j?

[themadmike 0]

i didn't say it was a SUCKOUT ...i said he got lucky on flopped a set.... a suck out would be if fourth street and the river came jk giving me a full house ... thats a suckout...