Mercury69 3 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 If so, wtf are you going to do when you get to a B&M casino? Learning to rely on technology is -EV, as far as I'm concerned. If you only play online, I can understand, but imo you'll get eaten alive in a live tourney, unless you assimilate and learn when you use your tools. Link to post Share on other sites
mused01 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 how so? I use pokerstove so much that I know which decisions are correct in many different situations since many of the situations are similar. now if i apply all the +EV pushes and moves I learned using pokerstove, how in the world would it not help me live? if you haven't noticed, many 2004 and 2005 WSOP events were dominated by internet specialists.EDIT: "unless you assimilate and learn when you use your tools."this is true and you acknowledge they can help. so wtf is this thread about. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 If so, wtf are you going to do when you get to a B&M casino? Learning to rely on technology is -EV, as far as I'm concerned. If you only play online, I can understand, but imo you'll get eaten alive in a live tourney, unless you assimilate and learn when you use your tools.I think I had the same type of concerns when I first played live.Basically you adapt. Whenever I'm not in pots I just practice counting pots sizes since I don't have it counted out for me. In fact, since I know what I'm looking for (re:stats) to make my decisions I find myself filling in the blanks all the time.Live is much slower so you have a lot more time to gather the info. No biggie really. Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Pokerstove helps with detailed hand analysis, but it's mainly used to help you attack common equity situations that you face at the tables, and helps you make the best decision. I usually only have to research a particular situation one time, then I pretty much remember the correct decision every time it comes up.What was the point in the thread? Are you trying to reassure yourself that you won't get owned in live play by people that use pokertracker et al.? Sorry buddy, the players that tend to use this software are also the players that are consistently and comprehensively analyzing their game, and are getting approximately 9X more experience on average in terms of hands played. That's why online is tougher than live play.Sorry to burst your bubble. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I have a little notepad (got it at the drug store for 1 buck) and I write down the big pots after they are done. Then look back on them Link to post Share on other sites
diamondhead 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I think I had the same type of concerns when I first played live.Basically you adapt. Whenever I'm not in pots I just practice counting pots sizes since I don't have it counted out for me. In fact, since I know what I'm looking for (re:stats) to make my decisions I find myself filling in the blanks all the time.Live is much slower so you have a lot more time to gather the info. No biggie really. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Sorry to burst my bubble? What bubble was that? Asking questions and initiating discussion? I want opinions, that's all. As for the smart mouth remarks, well, go ahead and humour yourselves. It's all good.PS: I'm going to start using it and I look forward to owning you when I have a BR that exceeds micro limits (laughs at self). Link to post Share on other sites
hotbacon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Learning to rely on technology is -EV, as far as I'm concernedYou're completely wrong.People use pokertracker etc. online because there are many many many more hands played and at numerous tables.Try getting solid reads without PT on 48 people.As for live play, only total retard can't maintain focus enough to get decent reads on 6-8 other people when they're only playing ****ing 35 hands an hour and can't be checking email or whatever at the same time.Any possible EV lost from learning to "rely" on PT etc. is going to miniscule, around the .0000000001 BB/100 range.Compare this to how much EV they pick up online, probably around 1 BB/100 if they play lots of tables. Link to post Share on other sites
ForRealDD 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Never personally used any poker software. I use excel to log my sessions, that is all. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 As for live play, only total retard can't maintain focus enough to get decent reads on 6-8 other people when they're only playing ****ing 35 hands an hourFirstly, I'd be surprised to see that many hands in an hour of live play. So I'm EXTRA agreeing with you there.But as for the "total retard bit"...reminds me of a poker quote."Think about how stupid the average poker player is; by definition half of the players are even more stupid."I think you're giving humans too much credit buddy. Link to post Share on other sites
hotbacon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Total retard was obviously an exageration I was going more along the lines of someone who actually cares about making money enough that tools like pokertracker would be a consideration. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Total retard was obviously an exageration I was going more along the lines of someone who actually cares about making money enough that tools like pokertracker would be a consideration.Hey hotbacon, ya gonna set up another strat table sometime soon? I still wanna try it out. Saturday wasn't a good idea for me to try while at work. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Whats B&M poker.Personally I cant even play serious poker live anymore. Changing over from 700 hands an hour to 25 just kills me. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Sorry to be ignorant..but what is Pokerstove and where can we get it..Serge Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Phil Ivey does awesome in both.So why can't I? Link to post Share on other sites
jcpoker 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 our users have told us that by using pokulator pro as they play the odds become ingrained in their heads. users that play with a calculator eventually know the winning % and chances to make each hand for themselves and their opponents in a wide variety of scenarios. this abilitiy carries over to the B&M casinos because by playing with a calculator the odds become second nature to the players allowing them to focus more on reading opponents. so, players that play with an online calculator are often more familiar with the odds than many of the other people at a B&M casino as opposed to being lost without the calculator. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 our users have told us that by using pokulator pro as they play the odds become ingrained in their heads. users that play with a calculator eventually know the winning % and chances to make each hand for themselves and their opponents in a wide variety of scenarios. this abilitiy carries over to the B&M casinos because by playing with a calculator the odds become second nature to the players allowing them to focus more on reading opponents. so, players that play with an online calculator are often more familiar with the odds than many of the other people at a B&M casino as opposed to being lost without the calculator.Anything that combines tits and pocket rockets has GOT to be good. Link to post Share on other sites
Moneyball16 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Sorry to be ignorant..but what is Pokerstove and where can we get it..SergeIt is software which enables you to input your cards, your opponents range of hands and what cards are on the board and it will calculate equity for you against your oppenents range of hands in a given situation.It is quite useful and I just googled it. Link to post Share on other sites
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