Lack Of Discipline = Inability To Lay Down Q's

[Mercury69 3]

Last night on Stars, playing in the 25K Guarantee 5$ rebuy. Did crap first hour, but hung in, rebuying a couple of times, started the second hour with 4600. Towards the end of the second hour, I'd battled my way up to 15K, about 500 people left. I look at pocket Q's. I min raise (1st stupid thing?), get a couple of callers. Flop comes T88, I bet out about 2/3 the pot, guy to my right raises (should have been my first clue). I call, like a dummy. Turn is a rag. I check it to him and he bets about 3K. That should have told me even more but, like the dumbass I am, I put him on J's, the only decent pocket pair that I could beat. Terrible read. Next 5thing I know, I go all-in, trying to rep pocket T's or A8 or something. He calls, of course, shows pocket K's and I'm out.Flame me, if you like, but I already feel stupid enough. This isn't really a bad beat post. It's an "I made a stupid read and didn't listen to my instincts" post. Beat me soundly or tell me to keep working at getting better, I don't care. I'm just being honest with myself.

[....Ian.... 0]

hindsight you may have gone broke no matter what with him havin KKbut the min raise? were the blinds high? was that the normal opening raise?

[Mercury69 3]

Yeah, I'm leaving out some info, because I don't have a hand history and my memory is cloudy from the post-hand tilt and smoke.The blinds were 100/200. I raised to 400, in LP (I think), after a couple of limpers, one of whom was the guy with K's. Actually, I think K-guy re-raised preflop, to about 1K, when it came back to him, which should have told me something.Anyway, it's a lesson in stupidity I won't soon forget, I hope. Instinct told me he had me beat, but I ignored it for some stupid ***, stubborn reason and just didn't hit the fold button.<sigh> I don't feel sorry for myself. Just really pissed I couldn't execute.

[mused01 0]

WHY RAISE MINIMUM WITH LIMPERS INFRONT OF YOU. WHY RAISE MINIMUM AT ALL. revaluate your play and come back to me. stop trying to be tricky and play those hands straight.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Last night on Stars, playing in the 25K Guarantee 5$ rebuy. Did crap first hour, but hung in, rebuying a couple of times, started the second hour with 4600. Towards the end of the second hour, I'd battled my way up to 15K, about 500 people left. I look at pocket Q's. I min raise (1st stupid thing?), get a couple of callers. Flop comes T88, I bet out about 2/3 the pot, guy to my right raises (should have been my first clue). I call, like a dummy. Turn is a rag. I check it to him and he bets about 3K. That should have told me even more but, like the dumbass I am, I put him on J's, the only decent pocket pair that I could beat. Terrible read. Next 5thing I know, I go all-in, trying to rep pocket T's or A8 or something. He calls, of course, shows pocket K's and I'm out.Flame me, if you like, but I already feel stupid enough. This isn't really a bad beat post. It's an "I made a stupid read and didn't listen to my instincts" post. Beat me soundly or tell me to keep working at getting better, I don't care. I'm just being honest with myself.

You both played it terribly. Min raise, pair on the board, and you're both firing heavy? He deserved to see you turn over 10 10 or 89 or something.

[dms26 3]

Yeah, I'm leaving out some info, because I don't have a hand history and my memory is cloudy from the post-hand tilt and smoke.The blinds were 100/200. I raised to 400, in LP (I think), after a couple of limpers, one of whom was the guy with K's. Actually, I think K-guy re-raised preflop, to about 1K, when it came back to him, which should have told me something.

turn on the auto HH feature, it will download straight to your hard driveyou should be flogged for min raising there

[Mercury69 3]

WHY RAISE MINIMUM WITH LIMPERS INFRONT OF YOU. WHY RAISE MINIMUM AT ALL. revaluate your play and come back to me. stop trying to be tricky and play those hands straight.

I have re-evaluated my play and I know I ****ed it up, on several counts. No need to yell. I ignored the impending signs of doom, despite my inner poker muse telling me he had me beat and I pushed like a donkey anyway. I should have finished in the money, imo, but donked out instead. That, along with the responses I expect to get on this thread, are punishment enough, but at least I'm willing to cop to the error of my ways and let you guys smack me around some.

You both played it terribly. Min raise, pair on the board, and you're both firing heavy? He deserved to see you turn over 10 10 or 89 or something.

I agree (also, please see my response above). Thanks!PS: A good flogging would be welcome.

[Nealyh_02 0]

I have re-evaluated my play and I know I ****ed it up, on several counts. No need to yell. I ignored the impending signs of doom, despite my inner poker muse telling me he had me beat and I pushed like a donkey anyway. I should have finished in the money, imo, but donked out instead. That, along with the responses I expect to get on this thread, are punishment enough, but at least I'm willing to cop to the error of my ways and let you guys smack me around some.I agree (also, please see my response above). Thanks!PS: A good flogging would be welcome.

It is hard to lay down does Q's. That is why I thought Nick Frangos lay down on the WSOP was amazing. I

[Mercury69 3]

It is hard to lay down does Q's. That is why I thought Nick Frangos lay down on the WSOP was amazing. I

Hard to lay down, yes. I've done it before, though, for wrong or right, so I am able to make that play. I just didn't go with what my gut and head were telling me and I opted for greed and got the boot in the butt.

[fleung22 1]

You messed up, you know it and you've learned.Move on!

[Mercury69 3]

You messed up, you know it and you've learned.Move on!

Yup...Accountability helps me do that. Thanks.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I like that you were scared he had trip 8's, so you went all in on the river making absolutely sure that you lose your whole stack against better hands - and probably get worse hands to fold.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I layed down QQ on the flop vs KKhe even showed me the KK cuz i said, i cant believe i'm laying down queens.You were lost in that hand, and had no idea where the hell you were.Make a larger raise, you're forcing people with big hands to re-raise, or flat call with aces or kings. In which case you gain more info on the flopflop comes lower than Q, 1st mistake is to bet. He raises, you call., or re-raise and are still lost. or in trouble.EDIT : sorry, i should have stated its case dependant, obviously without any real knowledge of the table or players, and the type of game, a lead out bet will be correctMy option here is always check, I know this opens up the possibilty of him checking behind and a K, or A falling., but u have to take that risk, and assume that only hands you will scare out with a bet are weak aces, lower Pocket pairs that havent hit a set.If he holds anything decent like KK, AA or a set, boat, trips etc.. you check/raise here, he makes some choices now. 1 - folds with nothing, 2- calls and then you're probably in trouble. 3 - raises you, and he'll more than likely have the goods, With a preflop raise, and a check raised flop., he cant committ more chis unless he's strong.

[Mercury69 3]

I like that you were scared he had trip 8's, so you went all in on the river making absolutely sure that you lose your whole stack against better hands - and probably get worse hands to fold.

Ummm.no, I actually didn't even say that. In fact, I was trying to represent trip 8's. Thanks for playing, though. What I did do was foolishly call off my stack when all the signs pointed to me being beaten. If you're going to be a *****, get it right. Also, the all-in came on the turn, if I remember right, definitely not the river.

[Bizzle 0]

Last night on Stars, playing in the 25K Guarantee 5$ rebuy. Did crap first hour, but hung in, rebuying a couple of times, started the second hour with 4600. Towards the end of the second hour, I'd battled my way up to 15K, about 500 people left. I look at pocket Q's. I min raise (1st stupid thing?), get a couple of callers. Flop comes T88, I bet out about 2/3 the pot, guy to my right raises (should have been my first clue). I call, like a dummy. Turn is a rag. I check it to him and he bets about 3K. That should have told me even more but, like the dumbass I am, I put him on J's, the only decent pocket pair that I could beat. Terrible read. Next 5thing I know, I go all-in, trying to rep pocket T's or A8 or something. He calls, of course, shows pocket K's and I'm out.Flame me, if you like, but I already feel stupid enough. This isn't really a bad beat post. It's an "I made a stupid read and didn't listen to my instincts" post. Beat me soundly or tell me to keep working at getting better, I don't care. I'm just being honest with myself.

There are so many mistakes here I don't really have time to identify them all. I could start with the the lack of information mistakes and the incorrectness mistakes, and still not even get to the mistakes you made when actually playing.

I layed down QQ on the flop vs KKhe even showed me the KK cuz i said, i cant believe i'm laying down queens.You were lost in that hand, and had no idea where the hell you were.Make a larger raise, you're forcing people with big hands to re-raise, or flat call with aces or kings. In which case you gain more info on the flopflop comes lower than Q, 1st mistake is to bet. He raises, you call., or re-raise and are still lost. or in trouble.EDIT : sorry, i should have stated its case dependant, obviously without any real knowledge of the table or players, and the type of game, a lead out bet will be correctMy option here is always check, I know this opens up the possibilty of him checking behind and a K, or A falling., but u have to take that risk, and assume that only hands you will scare out with a bet are weak aces, lower Pocket pairs that havent hit a set.If he holds anything decent like KK, AA or a set, boat, trips etc.. you check/raise here, he makes some choices now. 1 - folds with nothing, 2- calls and then you're probably in trouble. 3 - raises you, and he'll more than likely have the goods, With a preflop raise, and a check raised flop., he cant committ more chis unless he's strong.

Royal, I won't jump on this post because the first post was so wildly inaccurate that giving accurate advice is close to impossible. Needless to say, checking queens when checked to in this spot when against what was possibly (but I can't really tell) multiple opponents would be awful.

[Royal_Tour 0]

There are so many mistakes here I don't really have time to identify them all. I could start with the the lack of information mistakes and the incorrectness mistakes, and still not even get to the mistakes you made when actually playing.Royal, I won't jump on this post because the first post was so wildly inaccurate that giving accurate advice is close to impossible. Needless to say, checking queens when checked to in this spot when against what was possibly (but I can't really tell) multiple opponents would be awful.

Bizzle, i'm glad you're not goin to jump, which is why i can safely say that my advice was a way he could have played it.I larger preflop raise would most likely eliminate the multi way pot., also we're 1st to act from what i understand, but maybe i'm off on his post.hand history stack sizes etc would make this much much more usefull, i'm just giving my 2 cents as to how i might have appraoched the situation at that stage in the tourney

[Bizzle 0]

Bizzle, i'm glad you're not goin to jump, which is why i can safely say that my advice was a way he could have played it.I larger preflop raise would most likely eliminate the multi way pot., also we're 1st to act from what i understand, but maybe i'm off on his post.hand history stack sizes etc would make this much much more usefull, i'm just giving my 2 cents as to how i might have appraoched the situation at that stage in the tourney

Exactly-the hand should have gone like...limp, limp, raise to 1k, folds back to the KK limper, who either calls or reraises, if he reraises you can safely say with these deep stacks you are beat and just call to try to set. If he flat calls, you bet when checked to and then try to keep the pot as small as possible to get to the river.

[Mercury69 3]

Thanks, Royal and Bizzle.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Last night on Stars, playing in the 25K Guarantee 5$ rebuy. Did crap first hour, but hung in, rebuying a couple of times, started the second hour with 4600. Towards the end of the second hour, I'd battled my way up to 15K, about 500 people left. I look at pocket Q's. I min raise (1st stupid thing?), get a couple of callers. Flop comes T88, I bet out about 2/3 the pot, guy to my right raises (should have been my first clue). I call, like a dummy. Turn is a rag. I check it to him and he bets about 3K. That should have told me even more but, like the dumbass I am, I put him on J's, the only decent pocket pair that I could beat. Terrible read. Next 5thing I know, I go all-in, trying to rep pocket T's or A8 or something. He calls, of course, shows pocket K's and I'm out.Flame me, if you like, but I already feel stupid enough. This isn't really a bad beat post. It's an "I made a stupid read and didn't listen to my instincts" post. Beat me soundly or tell me to keep working at getting better, I don't care. I'm just being honest with myself.

You know, it just occurs to me ... there are STILL 500 people in this tourney when this happens. Meh. Not saying your play didn't suck from the word go, but if you push a big preflop raise, you're beat anyway, because if I'm KK, I'm putting you all in, and you're pot committed -- you call and it's over. If you fold at that point, you're crippled in a huge field. Either are recipes for an early exit.On the other hand, if you slow play, with a board pair and pressure -- you're likely beat, too. But most important, it was very early in the tourney to make this kind of play. I love hanging someone who is obviously holding on to their precious high pocket pairs with a set of 3s played out of the BB or some such ****. They fall for it almost every time. Lesson: (IMHO), you should wait for better positions/plays/opportunties if you want to go deep in the tourney. You had a decent stack built. Keep it. So yeah, you misplayed a hand early in a large field, and would have been beaten anyway had you played it right. Get over it. It happens.Note: QQ and JJ can pay big, but they can bite you in the *** like no other hand.

[Royal_Tour 0]

You know, it just occurs to me ... there are STILL 500 people in this tourney when this happens. Meh. Not saying your play didn't suck from the word go, but if you push a big preflop raise, you're beat anyway, because if I'm KK, I'm putting you all in, and you're pot committed -- you call and it's over. If you fold at that point, you're crippled in a huge field. Either are recipes for an early exit.On the other hand, if you slow play, with a board pair and pressure -- you're likely beat, too. But most important, it was very early in the tourney to make this kind of play. I love hanging someone who are obviously holding high pocket pairs with a set of 3s played out of the BB or some such ****. They fall for it almost every time. Lesson: (IMHO), you should wait for better positions/plays/opportunties if you want to go deep in the tourney. You had a decent stack built. Keep it. So yeah, you misplayed a hand early in a large field, and would have been beaten anyway had you played it right. Get over it. It happens.

fixed post,no idea what the blinds were until i was just infomred, so 15k is plenty.

[Mercury69 3]

You know, it just occurs to me ... there are STILL 500 people in this tourney when this happens. Meh. Not saying your play didn't suck from the word go, but if you push a big preflop raise, you're beat anyway, because if I'm KK, I'm putting you all in, and you're pot committed -- you call and it's over. If you fold at that point, you're crippled in a huge field. Either are recipes for an early exit.On the other hand, if you slow play, with a board pair and pressure -- you're likely beat, too. But most important, it was very early in the tourney to make this kind of play. I love hanging someone who is obviously holding high pocket pairs with a set of 3s played out of the BB or some such ****. They fall for it almost every time. Lesson: (IMHO), you should wait for better positions/plays/opportunties if you want to go deep in the tourney. You had a decent stack built. Keep it. So yeah, you misplayed a hand early in a large field, and would have been beaten anyway had you played it right. Get over it. It happens.Note: QQ and JJ can pay big, but they can bite you in the *** like no other hand.

Waiting for a better spot to make a play was one of the conclusions I arrived at. Appreciate the confirmation, sir.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Towards the end of the second hour. y guess is blinds are roughly 500/1000a raise of 4k isnt goin to committ us.

Fair enough.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Yeah, I'm leaving out some info, because I don't have a hand history and my memory is cloudy from the post-hand tilt and smoke.The blinds were 100/200. I raised to 400, in LP (I think), after a couple of limpers, one of whom was the guy with K's. Actually, I think K-guy re-raised preflop, to about 1K, when it came back to him, which should have told me something.Anyway, it's a lesson in stupidity I won't soon forget, I hope. Instinct told me he had me beat, but I ignored it for some stupid ***, stubborn reason and just didn't hit the fold button.<sigh> I don't feel sorry for myself. Just really pissed I couldn't execute.

uhhh, i didnt see this post., sooo I'm gonna retract pretty much everything i've said on this thread.thanks. you played horrible, but u learned., good luck

Fair enough.

Noooo@!!! fix the post. hahaha i didnt read all the extra info posts.blinds were 100/200. and the entire situation was brutal the way he played

[bigbadbeat 0]

I have lurked for weeks on this board and I finally see something that I really have to talk about. The point of this whole post seems to have skewed towards how should he have played the hand. While this is important, the key thing here is that you mistrusted your instinct, turned you back on them and paid dearly. Funny, every time I do that it costs me a fortune too. You ignored what you knew to be true, so say 50 Hail Mary's for penance and forget about it. BUT YOU DID READ THE SITUATION CORRECTLY. Take some solace in that. When you can take that knowledge and do the right thing, THEN all the advice on how the hand should or should not have been played will be worth real cash.

[Mercury69 3]

I have lurked for weeks on this board and I finally see something that I really have to talk about. The point of this whole post seems to have skewed towards how should he have played the hand. While this is important, the key thing here is that you mistrusted your instinct, turned you back on them and paid dearly. Funny, every time I do that it costs me a fortune too. You ignored what you knew to be true, so say 50 Hail Mary's for penance and forget about it. BUT YOU DID READ THE SITUATION CORRECTLY. Take some solace in that. When you can take that knowledge and do the right thing, THEN all the advice on how the hand should or should not have been played will be worth real cash.

Very nice read, sir. Thanks.