Final Table Gear Switching

[Smasharoo 0]

I've been thinking about this one a while now and while I don't really think it's a weakness in my game, it's one of those things that I do more instincively without understanding why than knowing it's theoretically correct.When I go over final table sessions where I'm not in the chip lead or close enough not to matter, that I often do this:Assuming stacks are fairly deep in general and I'm in ok shape M wise, I tend to play very very tightly for a few orbits, almost never stealing untill I feel I have a read on everyone. Then I generally continue to play really really tightly untill at least 2 players drop out and then I open up into my ussual fairly loose agressive playstyle. I'm just really not sure why or if I'm giving up too much early by doing this. It very well could just be a combination of hands I was dealt and how things played out but I feel like it's something my brain is doing intentionally without letting me know.Does anyone else do this, or have a better understanding why I do it? It's not a scared money thing, I'm not playing to move up to 6th or whatever, it's just a breif period of being very risk adverse feeling like I don't have enough information to play the way I want to postflop.Anyway, if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it. It's probably something that makes sense theoretically that just hasn't occured to me.good luck

[jhub30 0]

I've been thinking about this one a while now and while I don't really think it's a weakness in my game, it's one of those things that I do more instincively without understanding why than knowing it's theoretically correct.When I go over final table sessions where I'm not in the chip lead or close enough not to matter, that I often do this:Assuming stacks are fairly deep in general and I'm in ok shape M wise, I tend to play very very tightly for a few orbits, almost never stealing untill I feel I have a read on everyone. Then I generally continue to play really really tightly untill at least 2 players drop out and then I open up into my ussual fairly loose agressive playstyle. I'm just really not sure why or if I'm giving up too much early by doing this. It very well could just be a combination of hands I was dealt and how things played out but I feel like it's something my brain is doing intentionally without letting me know.Does anyone else do this, or have a better understanding why I do it? It's not a scared money thing, I'm not playing to move up to 6th or whatever, it's just a breif period of being very risk adverse feeling like I don't have enough information to play the way I want to postflop.Anyway, if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it. It's probably something that makes sense theoretically that just hasn't occured to me.good luck

One possible reason is because the final table often starts off with a few desperate short stacks who were just holding on to make the final table. Often any opening raise you make will committ you to the pot if they overpush so you have to avoid playing mediocre hands. I would think you probably would have noticed something like this but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

[psujohn 0]

HOH addresses this. You were just playing 5 or 6 handed and now you're at a full table again. Tighten way the hell up until you can adjust. Some people won't tighten up and they'll suffer.

[Actuary 3]

what have you done with Smasharoo?

[Smasharoo 0]

HOH addresses this.I should probably get around to reading that, but I have this suspicion that I'll be saying "yeah, no kidding" throughout the whole thing.good luck.

[mk 11]

HOH addresses this.I should probably get around to reading that, but I have this suspicion that I'll be saying "yeah, no kidding" throughout the whole thing.good luck.

It's true. Moreso for Volume 1. That would probably be a pretty big waste of time for you, but I think you might find some of Volume 2 to be worthy of your attention.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I think that with the scenario you have painted, you are doing the correct thing being one of the middle stacks, in sitting back to get a lay of the land, AND allowing the larger stacks to pound on the short stacks. In most tourneys, you end up going from a short-handed situation to a full table again, and have to adjust your play back in general. Unless you have read a ton of other "Tournament" poker books, I don't think Harrington on Hold'em Volume II would be a waste of your time. In many people's opinions, it is the cream of the crop...

[psujohn 0]

I recently finished HOH 1 and while I didn't have a lot of experience in tourneys (or any success) before reading it, I did spend most of the book waiting for the meat. I think you can summarize the first half of the book with "play good starting hands". I suspect that you can learn most of what you'd learn in HOH 1 by watching Celebrity Poker Showdown. Don't laugh - Phil Gordon gives some excellent advice for beginners. HOH 1 wasn't bad but it was largely a waste of time. I think most of what I was hoping to get out of it is actually in HOH 2.That said, while HOH 1 was a disappointment it did turn me into a better player. I'm making money (short term) in the 10+1 SNG and having some success in the MTTs too.

[Bizzle 0]

Once I get to the final two tables, my goal is to accumulate a minimum of 25k chips to head into the FT with. Obviously more is better. But the FT usually starts with blinds somewhere like 600/1200, and there are usually 2-3 people with short stacks of 10k or sok, a few people in the 20-35 range, and usually one or 2 big stacks in the 50k range. With a stack of 25k going in, you have enough chips that you're not forced to make a move early, and yet enough that you're a threat to everyone and can gamble on a coinflip or marginal situation against a shortie without eliminating yourself. I generally start out playing the final table very tight. The reason for this is simple - we've just been playing for a while at two short-handed tables. Many people were correctly playing a much wider range of hands 5 or 6-handed then they should at a full table. However, the quick change back to a full table and the excitement of being at the FT usually catches them off guard, and some people are liable to not switch gears back down into a more selective preflop strategy. After one or two orbits, most likely one or two people will be out, and this is where I like to go into steal mode, raising preflop an average of 2x per orbit if the situation allows. Again, with these raises I'm really not playing my cards - just the sizes of the stacks around me and their tendencies. I will not call reraises or all-ins with marginal hands like low pps or AJ-A2 (AQ depends on the person). I will call with AK every time, and QQ-AA every time.

Stole this from therrinns post from the 180s thread (I'd love to hear any comments you have about anything in that thread Smash, we saw you flipping through it the other day. Basically, just eloquates what others have been saying.

[....Ian.... 0]

when i FT: 20 left i open the other table and try to start veiwing hands there as well as my table. that way i have some history seen of the players who fill the FTi dont see anything wrong with tightfor an orbit or two. you gotta tighter somewhat cuz you just went from 5/6 handed to 10 so your range just shrunk.however i am guilty of trying to 'place up' sometimes.

It's true. Moreso for Volume 1. That would probably be a pretty big waste of time for you, but I think you might find some of Volume 2 to be worthy of your attention.

yeah, the endgame stuff has really good info, as well as the inflection points.

[Drwnded 0]

At a full FT, you usually have at least 2-3 small stacks looking to push, so I generally don't enter a pot unless I'm willing to call a push from a small stack behind me preflop. I think it's a good idea to wait a couple orbits, unless you get a big hand, to get a read on what range of hands you're opponents are willing to raise with, or call a raise with, preflop. Even the frequency with which someone raises at the final table, even if it doesn't go to showdown, is usually enough to give you some idea of their criteria and let you decide what range hands you're willing to play against them. I like to target the loose players at the FT, b/c you have a lot of fold equity when you reraise all-in behind them, and if they do call you, you'll often have them dominated.BTW smash, what happened to 'NL for buffalo' ?

[jjgoldy5 0]

I like to play super tight at the beginning of final tables....let others splash around and knock eachother out while you develop a super tight table image so that when you do switch gears (doesn't work if you are already shortstacked) you can go into superaggressive mode and steal back the blinds you potentially let go in the first few orbits.