i have never been so insanely mad ever!

[Smasharoo 0]

really anytimelet's rock you over rated computer hding f a gI'd offer, but much like last time I'd end up sitting a room alone.

[faketree 0]

I'm not going to go into the logistics of Smash's argument vs. the others argument because both are valid in certain situations. I find much of Smash's strategy leaves much to be desired but everyone finds their own way to win.The biggest thing I notice is that a lot of inexperienced players will play AA in a NL ring game the same way they would play it in a multi-table tournament or the way they saw it on TV. This is just my experience but the value of AA is much different in these situations. Being very general I will try to explain.You have to highly consider whether your AA is the best hand on the flop in the ring game moreso than in a tournament. If you have AA in a ring game and raise before the flop, a big raise so most good players will put you on AA or KK, it is not a bad call to call with 76 to try and bust you right there since they basically know you'll be betting huge on the flop unless its unbelievably scary. In a tournament, you have to adjust your mind not to go broke so if you put someone on AA the +EV is in a fold.This is why I feel AA is one of the most misplayed hands in NL ring games. People generally think AA is the pure nuts. This is evident by the original posters willingness to go all-in after being check-raised in a NL game. Unless you knew this was the type of player that would check-raise with TPTK, your AA is no good and you should get rid of it.This is where Smash's all-in pre-flop with AA gains quite a bit of steam. Because it can be easily misplayed and quite often picked off by an observant player, the all-in play isn't a terrible one and one that definitely will turn into +EV because you will only get called by worse hands when they do call and win a small pot when no one calls.If you choose to play AA with just a standard raise and multiple players in the pot, even if there is an appparent rag flop and you get check-raised, you're beat.

[speedz99 145]

Sure it will good play and advice ago all in with the best atarting hand and hope to get a call that is tremendous advice somebody helpo this foolI think the funniest part of your posts is how quickly I'd decimate you in NL.

really anytimelet's rock you over rated computer hding f a g

Are you one of those jackasses who checks his computer every 10 seconds for 12 hours a day, and then makes fun of other people for doing the same this?Get a grip. Anyone who talks like that is obviously a 15 year old kid who has no idea how to be a functioning human being, let alone a good poker player. Am I right, or am I right?

[Guest Anonymous]

really anytimelet's rock you over rated computer hding f a gI'd offer, but much like last time I'd end up sitting a room alone.

still yet to tell me your name i tod you mine you stalking freak it was me by myself waiting for you who never showed you still have yet to tell your name on PARTY how could i find you

[Markmadness 0]

This is where i have to disagree and agree with smash. The main problem with most people is that they do not know how to let go of AA when the flop comes out scary. Myself included. So if you one of those types by all means just go all in. But i do not like risking 200 bucks 50 bucks or whatever level your at in one hand. Even if 22 calls me he still has a shot of winning. I don't recommend putting all your money preflop in one hand. Unless you playing tourney or sit and go. I mean if your playing 100/200 blinds and have 100 000 in front of you , it would be absoultely wrong to risk that much money On a pair of aces even if the odds are in your favour.

[Smasharoo 0]

This is where Smash's all-in pre-flop with AA gains quite a bit of steam. Because it can be easily misplayed and quite often picked off by an observant player, the all-in play isn't a terrible one and one that definitely will turn into +EV because you will only get called by worse hands when they do call and win a small pot when no one calls. Presicely. It's impossible for it *not* to be +EV, ever, in a cash game.For another strategy to be superior you have to be consistently making +EV plays postflop with no visability much of the time, and turning a higher profit than pushing would have.It's a unque hand in that there's never a -EV situation pushing with it pre-flop which it why it's the only hand this sort of a strategy is realy viable with.There really isn't much loss in equity with it, you surrender the equity of a small pre-flop raise in exchange of signfigantly less risk and shutting out implied odds to your opponents and offering them zero fold equity from you on later streets.I think the sad reality is that the vast, vast, vast majority of NL players would find that just pushing with AA every time would have a higher return then how they attempt to maximize value with it by seing flops./shrug.I think it's mostly ego that pushes a lot of people to want to play it post-flop when they just can't get away from it.

[Emptyeye 0]

This is where Smash's all-in pre-flop with AA gains quite a bit of steam. Because it can be easily misplayed and quite often picked off by an observant player, the all-in play isn't a terrible one and one that definitely will turn into +EV because you will only get called by worse hands when they do call and win a small pot when no one calls.  Presicely.  It's impossible for it *not* to be +EV, ever, in a cash game.[...]I think it's mostly ego that pushes a lot of people to want to play it post-flop when they just can't get away from it.

Just curious, in a cash game situation, would you say that the correct play is to always stay in with it to the river, regardless of what board comes out?Also, I don't know that it's ego that pushes people to want to play it so much as the simple fact that "It's ACES! How can I get away from ACES?!". As if they're "due" for a hand that they see as invincible.EDIT: Missing two words consecutively in the same sentence. ARGH!

[faketree 0]

This is where Smash's all-in pre-flop with AA gains quite a bit of steam. Because it can be easily misplayed and quite often picked off by an observant player, the all-in play isn't a terrible one and one that definitely will turn into +EV because you will only get called by worse hands when they do call and win a small pot when no one calls.  Presicely.  It's impossible for it *not* to be +EV, ever, in a cash game.For another strategy to be superior you have to be consistently making +EV plays postflop with no visability much of the time, and turning a higher profit than pushing would have.It's a unque hand in that there's never a -EV situation pushing with it pre-flop which it why it's the only hand this sort of a strategy is realy viable with.There really isn't much loss in equity with it, you surrender the equity of a small pre-flop raise in exchange of signfigantly less risk and shutting out implied odds to your opponents and offering them zero fold equity from you on later streets.I think the sad reality is that the vast, vast, vast majority of NL players would find that just pushing with AA every time would have a higher return then how they attempt to maximize value with it by seing flops./shrug.I think it's mostly ego that pushes a lot of people to want to play it post-flop when they just can't get away from it.

I can usually find some sort of disagreement with your strategies in other posts on certain points but I can see the validity of the AA situation. Visibility is the biggest problem with getting cute with AA because any decent player will know when you have it.If you push it incredibly hard pre-flop, all the time it is never going to be a negative value.And actually, playing AA this way goes more along the lines of one of the basic premises of poker and all gambling for that matter; minimize your risk and maximize your expectation. Quite fundamental actually.

[gadjet 11]

On a full table low limit I'd go with Smash on this and I can't even stand the guy... Suited Up you're being a baby, you chose to let those players follow you in by not raising enough, you know the weak players exist and will call. So you left the door open for the beats. And you've been around here enough that you have to know if you post a hand or hands as bad beats that you could've actually avoided the beat by playing stronger you are gonna get torn up... The plus of pushing of course is the callers you will get every once in a while… (Especially if you think Party Poker is rigged to create action by giving everyone monsters on the same hand… haha) so you can add that to your minimum .35 cents… on the other hand when you raise to keep crappy callers in, you are getting your +EV in early in for only a small amount… If they hit, you are betting big with -EV and you are getting smacked… if they miss you are betting big with +EV and they are folding… this is your own mistake. You guys want the action against your beautiful AA but then go on tilt when they get beat by the limpers that you allow…The defence does win on this one… Smash, I've said three times in posts now, I have to go with Smash on this one, and I'm not a fan of his… shudder… can you say some more jackass things so I can rekindle my hate for the Smash fan club?

[Suited_Up 2]

I am not arguing that pushing with those hands won't always be the best choice... obviously it won't beWhen is it ever going to be?When are you ever going to get called by a worse hand or fold a better one?

The whole reason party poker is so lucrative... is because of the amount of people who WILL call with worse hands.

[flyingmoose 0]

At a full Party 25NL game, you probably get called by KJs or or better and any pair if you push preflop. More than half those players judge their hands by how they see WPT players playing 3-handed on T.V. If you think pushing is an altogether bad strategy, you simply have not played the game this thread is referring to.I would argue that it is not the absolute best way to play the hand in every situation, but I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it is.

[Suited_Up 2]

(Especially if you think Party Poker is rigged to create action by giving everyone monsters on the same hand… haha)

Not sure why I would think that, and where you are gathering that assumption from... which just isn't true. But even if someone did think that... I would hardly call AA vs. 67 monster vs. monster. Same for KK vs. Q4

[Suited_Up 2]

At a full Party 25NL game, you probably get called by KJs or or better and any pair if you push preflop.  More than half those players judge their hands by how they see WPT players playing 3-handed on T.V.  If you think pushing is an altogether bad strategy, you simply have not played the game this thread is referring to.I would argue that it is not the absolute best way to play the hand in every situation, but I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it is.

Well them i'm waiting for someone to give me the ABSOLUTE best way to play it.I really don't mind being wrong... It's obvious after knowing the outcome that I didn't play it perfectly. But nobody plays every hand perfect. The problem I have with the pushing preflop argument, is that while it can't be -EV... the positive you get from it is not the MOST positive I believe you can get from that hand. First of all... If you push every time you get AA... Don't you think after one or two times, someone might catch on to that? I usually raise the same amount with any hand I raise. AK, AQ, AJ, AA, KK. Which I thought was usually a good idea so nobody is ever able to put you on anything. If I start pushing ONLY with AA.... Don't you think someone would notice i'm only doing that once every like 3 hours?Back to the main point... I think there is a more +EV way to play this hand... but nobody seems to have the solution. But I guarantee, unless you're in a completely loose aquarium of a game... Most people don't like risking their whole stack with KJ. But those are the exact hands I want to call my 4x or 6x raise preflop with.

[Smasharoo 0]

The whole reason party poker is so lucrative... is because of the amount of people who WILL call with worse hands.If that's the case they'll also call with worse ones pre-flop when you have them crushed.They'll never call with better ones preflop.

[Suited_Up 2]

The whole reason party poker is so lucrative... is because of the amount of people who WILL call with worse hands.If that's the case they'll also call with worse ones pre-flop when you have them crushed.They'll never call with better ones preflop.

That's exactly what I want... But as I said before, he got lucky this time. But I wouldn't want him to neccisarrily fold those hands next time. I'd prefer to have AA vs. Q4 I was just upset that he managed to get lucky twice in a row, when I had huge hands. The whole conversation about how to play AA preflop doesn't even really matter... my mistake was post flop. But if I knew his cards, and I could either raise small knowing he'd call with those cards, or go all in, knowing he would fold them. I'd rather him call every time. I had him crushed, and don't mind that situation.

[Smasharoo 0]

I was just upset that he managed to get lucky twice in a row, when I had huge hands.You should be upset that you paid him off twice after offering him massive implied odds to call with any two cards.

[flyingmoose 0]

At a full Party 25NL game, you probably get called by KJs or or better and any pair if you push preflop.  More than half those players judge their hands by how they see WPT players playing 3-handed on T.V.  If you think pushing is an altogether bad strategy, you simply have not played the game this thread is referring to.I would argue that it is not the absolute best way to play the hand in every situation, but I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it is.

Well them i'm waiting for someone to give me the ABSOLUTE best way to play it.

You couldn't get away from your hands postflop. That's fine; not folding aces at the 25NL level is not a significant leak in your game that will cost you too much in the long run. And don't worry about the first hand, I think you played that one OK.Just make sure that you raise enough not to give your opponent implied odds against you next time and you'll be fine. Aces are a 7.5-1 favorite against 2 unpaired undercards. Raise more than 1/7 of what you have in front of you. Forget about XxBB in this situation. If you aren't prepared to fold aces postflop, then you need to raise with regards to proportion of your stack. If you have 25 dollars in front of you, I'd advise raising about 5 most of the time. And whatever you do, don't worry about them catching on. There's probably 1 guy at your table who will stay long enough to notice, and he's probably 5-tabling -- and too good to call with marginal hands anyway. You need to be more concerned about losing 25 dollars than *only* winning 35 cents. And to whoever was talking about waiting another 200 hands for aces, what are you talking about? You don't make the majority of your poker money on aces. Play every hand such that you have the best chance of winning more money in the LONG RUN. Doubling up with aces once every 4 times you get them is more valuable than winning 3-4 dollars every single time you get them. That's why Smash's strategy works.

[AC BillP 0]

I will never understand the logic of not getting in as big a bet as possible pre-flop with AA. If three is any chance some idiot will call I want all my money in on the best hand I can get. The players that I might underbet AA all play $4000-$8000 and are over my skill level anyway.

[Wily 0]

The preflop play isn't too bad, althought I'd raise it to 6X BB or beyond on a loose table like you were in, with several limpers and loose players.However, don't get too angry that he won with two pair - any two cards has huge implied odds value on you if they hit, and if your opponent can read that you will push all in with your big pair no matter what happens. He might be calling 5X BB, but he has odds to win 100 BB (your $25) if he hits something. Wouldn't you have done the same thing if the flop came down 3 3 4 (and he had Q 3?)? If I find strong resistance against me when I just have an overpair with no draws, I will find even AA.Example - last cash NL game i played, blinds .5/1, I called a $4 raise from a big stack with 10 9 suited. Flop comes down K 10 9, we both go all in, he has AA and doesn't improve, and I make more than $120 in one hand . As Scotty says, that's no limit baby...

[Uppie_ 0]

i do agree with the guy that said all in preflop with AA works awesome they are married to alot of hands pre flop and will call, with AQ and under pairs all the time, and that has really been my experinece on party poker. your a big fav you said you knew they would call anyway so make them make a hard call with there shit hand and draw out on you. it does really work.

[Uppie_ 0]

why did it censore marginal

[flyingmoose 0]

dude, I can't believe you just said marginal on this forum. Children post here!

[dynamic1 0]

keep in mind that AA and KK are just a pair. You cant fall too in love with these hands. Look how many hands are won with two pair, trips, straights flushes. If you get played back at after the flop, there is a good chance your beat. throw em away. I agree with the principal of a big raise preflop or in the best case scenario, an opportunity to reraise. That would get you into a heads up position against a decent hand and then, with a favorable flop you can push in. On the other side, I much prefer to have small to medium size pocket pairs into a raised pot with multiple callers. If you hit your trips it can be a great payoff, because, if your up against a big pocket pair, obviously they will probably play it fast.just my 2 cents

[Uppie_ 0]

ha ha

[dreed 0]

while reading all of these posts a brilliant idea hit me... let's petition Daniel to make the next Player Profile about our very own Smasharoo. Who is with me?