Interesting Article

[dms26 3]

Leviticus 18:22" 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.Leviticus 20:13" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

He did not say that gays should be killed, he says the Bible's Old Testament has advice on that, and that it means at the very least that homosexual acts are a sin.I do have a problem with anyone saying someone else "should be killed." I'm anti-death penalty.

It looks to me like the advice says that they should be killed.

[custom36 4]

By "these people" you mean people that don't agree with the way you think . . . right? I mean that is your point, correct? So if someone disagrees with you and YOUR beliefs they are stupid? While you are the ever knowing . . . ???????The pathetic thing is when you said, "due to the brainwashing". That is funny. You can't even wrap your little mind around the fact that there are people in this world (quite a few actually) that actually believe in GOD. I know . . . I know . . . I've been brain washed . . . I believe in GOD . . . I'm a Freak.

Actually, brainwashing is the correct term. I was brought up Catholic for 16 years. Looking back on it, it WAS brainwashing. I'm still a Christian, but I'm non-denominational and incorporate buddhist and taoist thinking into my belief system.And he's not saying anyone who disagrees with him. He's saying people that use the statement he bolded, which is complete crap.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I will assume you are talking about marriage. Marriage in the bible is defined as a man and a woman because that is the way GOD intended it. The founding fathers of this country founded this nation "UNDER GOD". We, at one time, were a predominately Christian nation and that is the exact reason why our money says "UNDER GOD".

I don't think this will really do anything to directly affect the discussion here, but I will point out that when our founding fathers founded this country "Under God" it may not have meant the same thing to them as it does to many. They were primarily Deist, not Christian.

[FOOSE1 0]

It looks to me like the advice says that they should be killed.

Since this has come up more than once . . . I will try to explain as best and as quickly as I can. Old Testament times: GOD layed down the law. He gave us guidelines on how to live our lives telling us what was right and what was wrong. Example that has been thrown back at me: Leviticus 20:13 says "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads". In this instance GOD tells us that homosexuality is bad. Often during that time there are examples of GOD taking his wrath out on what he considered wicked people which explains the severity of the comment, "must be put to death". Sodom and Gamorrah was an example where GOD destroyed an entire area because of their wicked ways. Luke 17:29 "But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all". In this time GOD would weigh his judgement on Earth . . . wages for sin is death.New Testament times: GOD knew that man by nature were sinners. He knew that no man could live a sin-free life. GOD also tells us that the wages for sin is death. He tells us this in Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". He is not only talking about physical death but also spiritual death by being seperated from him (GOD) for eternity. The second part of Romans 6:23 tells us that "the gift of GOD is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". So he sent Jesus Christ to live as a human so that HE could make the sacrifice of HIS life, on our behalfs, for OUR sins. So he died on the cross, for our sins. He took the burden of the entire world's sins so that we wouldn't have to be seperated from GOD for eternity. Now, we have the choice. We can choose Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior or we can spend an eternity without GOD. It's our choice (FREE WILL). If you choose Christ, your sins are forgiven because he died for you sins. So back to Leviticus 20:13 . . . is homosexuality still a sin . . . yes. BUT . . . Christ died for our sins . . . so we don't have to.NOTE: THIS IS A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS, THEN IT IS IRRELEVENT. BUT HOPEFULLY IF YOU ARE OPEN MINDED ENOUGH YOU WILL ATLEAST SEE WHERE IT IS THAT I AM COMING FROM.

Actually, brainwashing is the correct term. I was brought up Catholic for 16 years. Looking back on it, it WAS brainwashing. I'm still a Christian, but I'm non-denominational and incorporate buddhist and taoist thinking into my belief system.And he's not saying anyone who disagrees with him. He's saying people that use the statement he bolded, which is complete crap.

I hope I'm not confusing things worse . . . but I'm not Catholic . . . and I do not agree with a lot of the Catholic teachings. Never been to a Catholic church so don't know of any "brainwashing".

[speedz99 145]

By "these people" you mean people that don't agree with the way you think . . . right? I mean that is your point, correct? So if someone disagrees with you and YOUR beliefs they are stupid? While you are the ever knowing . . . ???????

That's not at all what I said. But if that helps you sellp at night...yes I am an ignorant person that thinks only my point of view is correct. In actuality I'll

The pathetic thing is when you said, "due to the brainwashing". That is funny. You can't even wrap your little mind around the fact that there are people in this world (quite a few actually) that actually believe in GOD. I know . . . I know . . . I've been brain washed . . . I believe in GOD . . . I'm a Freak.

Believing in God is great. I'm all for it if it helps you lead your own life. It just bothers me when the belief in one religion makes people completely blind to all rational thought. I have a quick question for you. It's very simple, so please don't ignore it like you ignore all other rational arguments. If I raised my children from birth to believe that I am the son of God...and for the rest of their lives they tell people this, what would you consider that? A belief structure or brainwashing?Ok, to be fair there's no right answer to that. If you consider it a belief structure you're an idiot. If you consider it brainwashing, you're also an idiot. But if you think about it, the question shows why I consider YOU to be brainwashed. From the time you were a child (or in some cases older than that and in need of something to believe in) you are hammered with this "belief" until you really have no choice but to believe in it yourself. That's basically the definition of brainwashing.In conclusion: God, good. Religion, good in some cases. Believing that everything in the Bible is actually fact and should be followed without question: completely moronic and scary.

NOTE: THIS IS A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS, THEN IT IS IRRELEVENT. BUT HOPEFULLY IF YOU ARE OPEN MINDED ENOUGH YOU WILL ATLEAST SEE WHERE IT IS THAT I AM COMING FROM.

I take it back, maybe you are somewhat rational.So what do you think of the Muslim faith? Are they just as correct as you, or are they misguided?

[loogie 115]

God didn't create Steve?

[FOOSE1 0]

In conclusion: God, good. Religion, good in some cases. Believing that everything in the Bible is actually fact and should be followed without question: completely moronic and scary.As a christian I believe what the bible says so to consider it fact is not completely moronic to me. By they way . . . I was not raised in a church. I found GOD in my early 20's when I was about to be married. So I was not brain washed my whole life as you call it. I searched for answers about GOD on my own and was happy with what I found.I take it back, maybe you are somewhat rational.So what do you think of the Muslim faith? Are they just as correct as you, or are they misguided?This is a trick question! You know I'm going to say that I do not believe in the Muslim Faith because it does not exactly go hand in hand with Christianity . . .

[speedz99 145]

As a christian I believe what the bible says so to consider it fact is not completely moronic to me.

I guess I just don't understand how you can believe that those are actually God's words. I also think that many Christians are hypocritical because they take certain things in the bible (like stuff about homosexuality) very literally, while simultaneously ignoring other things (like stuff about slavery, treatment of women, etc.). I think that most bible-belt Christians WANT to hate gays, so they find excuses for their behavior...just like they used to do with black people, except now it's finally unacceptable in modern society.

This is a trick question! You know I'm going to say that I do not believe in the Muslim Faith because it does not exactly go hand in hand with Christianity . .

It's not a trick question.Either you believe that you are correct and Muslims, Hindus, etc. are wrong...or you believe that everyone is correct because we all view the world differently. Easy question. I promise not to attack your answer...I'm just very curious about how religious people think.

[loogie 115]

As a christian I believe what the bible says so to consider it fact is not completely moronic to me.

Two of every animal in the Ark?

[speedz99 145]

Two of every animal in the Ark?

Have you ever seen Joe Rogan do his stand up routine about the Ark? It's pretty hilarious.

[timwakefield 68]

Not.The.Point."Sir, I'm sorry you couldn't deny your genetic predisposition to become a crazed alcoholic, so we're just gonna let this drinking & driving go..."Honestly I'm glad everybody sins because it would be awfuly hard to talk about this if I couldn't say "hey, I've had premarital hetero sex, and this is just as sinful as homosexual brokebacking." But I have; a sinner I am. I couldn't deny my urges Tim, and I'm not even 24 years old yet. Did I still ef up? Yep.

Exactly. The. Point.Drinking and driving has a great potential of hurting yourself AND OTHERS. Getting it on with a member of your own gender does not.If you think that comparing homosexual sex to drunk driving is an apt analogy, you're nuts. Seriously. That's like comparing pre-marital sex to being a crackhead....totally unrelated.The point is, why should somebody deny this urge, which they feel as strongly and naturally as a heterosexual feels the urge to be with somebody of the opposite sex?

[Jadaki 0]

I hope I'm not confusing things worse . . . but I'm not Catholic . . . and I do not agree with a lot of the Catholic teachings. Never been to a Catholic church so don't know of any "brainwashing".

Let me ask you something. If you grew up, and were never introduced to the bible until say... age 30, would you still consider in as factual as you do?Your like the kid who just got told Santa Claus was a fairly tale and your completely refusing to believe it's even possible.

[speedz99 145]

Let me ask you something. If you grew up, and were never introduced to the bible until say... age 30, would you still consider in as factual as you do?Your like the kid who just got told Santa Claus was a fairly tale and your completely refusing to believe it's even possible.

He said he didn't find religion until he was 22.But I'm guessing it either came from the person he was engaged to or after a traumatic event. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying these are more circumstances that will allow someone to be "brainwashed" or whatever we want to call it.

[FOOSE1 0]

I guess I just don't understand how you can believe that those are actually God's words.It's hard for most to understand. I believe in the Bible the same way I believe in GOD . . by Faith.I also think that many Christians are hypocritical because they take certain things in the bible (like stuff about homosexuality) very literally, while simultaneously ignoring other things (like stuff about slavery, treatment of women, etc.). The Bible is very specific on homosexuality. As far as slavery goes, The Bible talks about groups of people being in slavery such as the Israelites. This is not the same as the slavery we refer to because of race. The Bible is clear that we are all equal in GOD's eyes. On the slaves in particular the Bible says this in Job 31:13-15, "If I have denied justice to my menservants and maidservants when they had a grievance against me, what will I do when God confronts me? What will I answer when called to account? Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?". This says it plainly, everyone is equal in GOD's eyes. Same thing can be said for women. Little fact . . . After the resurection of Jesus Christ, he first revealed himself to a woman . . . not a man. I think that most bible-belt Christians WANT to hate gays, so they find excuses for their behavior...just like they used to do with black people, except now it's finally unacceptable in modern society.Since I am in the Bible-Belt I will answer this on behalf of myself and tell you that my church thinks exactly the opposite. I do not hate gays. If you read the whole thread you have seen that I have a friend that is gay. I do not HATE anybody. There again it is not my place to judge. But I can tell you that any church or Christian that promotes HATE in any form or fashion is not living in GOD's will and is not living by what the Bible teaches. And yes . . . they are hypocrites.It's not a trick question.Either you believe that you are correct and Muslims, Hindus, etc. are wrong...or you believe that everyone is correct because we all view the world differently. Easy question. I promise not to attack your answer...I'm just very curious about how religious people think.Fair enough. Yes, obviously I believe what the Bible teaches. Exodus 20:3 says "You shall have no other gods before me". This includes Budha. So therefore I believe that they are wrong. I am also not naive. I know that someone will say that they can say the same about my religion. So again . . . I believe by FAITH.I hope this helps further where I am coming from.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I feel tired...

[Don Giovanni 0]

you do know that the adam and eve story is fictional right foose?

[FOOSE1 0]

Let me ask you something. If you grew up, and were never introduced to the bible until say... age 30, would you still consider in as factual as you do?Your like the kid who just got told Santa Claus was a fairly tale and your completely refusing to believe it's even possible.

Fair question. But I didn't grow up in church. I found GOD on my own. I wanted to know more about GOD because I knew nothing. So I studied the bible, read it, went to church. I finally made my own decision. . . . your completely refusing to believe it's even possible.I could reverse this and say the same thing to you. But I won't

[custom36 4]

Fair enough. Yes, obviously I believe what the Bible teaches. Exodus 20:3 says "You shall have no other gods before me". This includes Budha. So therefore I believe that they are wrong. I am also not naive. I know that someone will say that they can say the same about my religion. So again . . . I believe by FAITH.I hope this helps further where I am coming from.

Buddhism does not believe Buddha is God. Buddhism teaches that the Buddha was a teacher and the first to achieve enlightenment by sitting under a tree and meditating. Buddhism teaches that it is not important to speculate and fight about the existance of God, because there is no way of truly knowing until you die. It teaches that you will find out when you die.Muslims believe in one God. Muslims believe in the same God that Christians believe in. God, in arabic, is Allah. That's why they call him Allah. In fact, the roots of Islam are the same as the roots of Judaism and Christianity. All three trace their roots back to Abraham.

[FOOSE1 0]

you do know that the adam and eve story is fictional right foose?

That just hurt my brain.

[speedz99 145]

Buddhism does not believe Buddha is God. Buddhism teaches that the Buddha was a teacher and the first to achieve enlightenment by sitting under a tree and meditating. Buddhism teaches that it is not important to speculate and fight about the existance of God, because there is no way of truly knowing until you die. It teaches that you will find out when you die.

I need to look more into Buddhism.

[dms26 3]

I guess I just don't understand how you can believe that those are actually God's words. I also think that many Christians are hypocritical because they take certain things in the bible (like stuff about homosexuality) very literally, while simultaneously ignoring other things (like stuff about slavery, treatment of women, etc.).

I was going to say exactly this. It's almost like whatever is most convenient for you, sometimes you say the bible should be taken word for word, other times it shouldn't be taken so literally.

[speedz99 145]

Foose, one more thing....

The Bible is very specific on homosexuality.

That's fair. The Bible is also specific about other things. This is a quote from The West Wing (love that show) that I've always wanted to ask a serious Bible-quoting Christian about. Can you do me one last thing and read this and explain why these things are not applicable anymore but the stuff about homosexuality is?

Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?

[Farnan 0]

I need to look more into Buddhism.

That was exactly my thought...

[Jadaki 0]

Fair question. But I didn't grow up in church. I found GOD on my own. I wanted to know more about GOD because I knew nothing. So I studied the bible, read it, went to church. I finally made my own decision. . . . your completely refusing to believe it's even possible.I could reverse this and say the same thing to you. But I won't

I didn't see your post about finding it till you were in your 20's till after I posted that.But did you just try to tell me a fat man in a red suit comes down my chimney (that I don't have) every december 25th and brings me gifts?Jerk has been stiffing me for a few years then

[FOOSE1 0]

I didn't see your post about finding it till you were in your 20's till after I posted that.But did you just try to tell me a fat man in a red suit comes down my chimney (that I don't have) every december 25th and brings me gifts?Jerk has been stiffing me for a few years then

He still comes to my house