Interesting Article

[custom36 4]

Ironic, eh?

Like a million forks when all you need is a spoon...

[Canada 0]

You actually made ME laugh with this one.Again, old testament vs. new testament. What's the difference? If YOU knew that then you wouldn't have made such and idiotic statement.But it did make me laugh . . . go get him tiger

I'm glad you laughed.Yes I do know the differences you smugly refer toHowever the question remains... Why post it if it is not to be taken literally? If you are going to put it up there that somebody should be put to death, perhaps it would be sensible to put it in context.It is not safe to assume that your audience will know the differences between the 2 testaments, and you are playing with some pretty direct and dangerous statements, with biblical authority. We've already seen how fundamentalists take instructions like this and run with it. Nice work encouraging it.Then you have the arrogance to suggest my post was idiotic. Hey Pot! Yes Kettle?You're black.

[FOOSE1 0]

It is not safe to assume that your audience will know the differences between the 2 testaments, and you are playing with some pretty direct and dangerous statements, with biblical authority. Hey Pot! Yes Kettle?You're black.

Fair enough, you are right.And the last part . . . again . . . made me laugh.

[Canada 0]

I never said I was against the benefits. Actually I said I was torn on the point about benefits. I was against the "marriage" of gays based on my beliefs. I am open for debate on the benefits part.

So you objection is terminology based.Call their relationships "Civil Unions" or something similar and yours a Christian marriage and poof! the problem disappears.PS. I hope my Australian humour is not wasted in that last line

[custom36 4]

Did you actually read my above post . . . or just respond after you skimmed it???? I DO NOT JUDGE GAY PEOPLE (little story about my gay friend ring a bell?). I was stating my opinion and what the bible says. I CAN have an opinion and not judge. I do think it is biblically wrong to have a homosexual lifestyle. However, I will say it again, I am not the one to judge.

That's like saying you have a black friend, but don't approve of his being black and, thus, you don't believe he deserves equal rights.It's still intolerant crap.DYSW?

[FOOSE1 0]

That's like saying you have a black friend, but don't approve of his being black and, thus, you don't believe he deserves equal rights.It's still intolerant crap.DYSW?

The bible doesn't say it's wrong to be Black. Your analogy is not the same.

[DonkSlayer 1]

That's the terminology he used. To me, using the bible as justification for your opinion on someone's lifestyle is a cop out. You can say "the bible says he's a sinner, so that's what I believe" or you can say "I think he's a sinner because of my beliefs and what I've been taught"To me, it's semantics. If you say someone is sinning, you're judging their actions. Generally, as a society, we agree something like murder is clearly a sin (although we don't use that term, we say it breaks the laws of our society).I simply don't agree with his belief that homosexuality is a sin...or breaks god's laws...or that society should discriminate against those who are homosexual.

Saying something is a sin is a matter-of-fact statement from a Christian point of view. We as a society agree something like murder is wrong (we use words like immoral, unethical) but a "sin" is a religious term. There are Christian and other religious "sins" that have nothing to do with secular, logical reasoning. Is eating pork wrong (lets not consider a vegan argument)? I don't think so, but it is a "sin" for orthodox jews.Jeff my thing is, if you view the Bible as fiction or mythology, why try to quote it or reconcile it? It's meaningless and irrelevant to the point you're attempting to make. It makes all the difference in the world whether you believe what the Bible and the Church says on certain life issues. If you don't believe it, why even mess with it? Just promote equal secular rights, etc.

Like you've never talked about Superman's x-ray vision, or discussed time travel...Point is all good works of fiction should be debated in context.I'll also take your 'FYP' as evidence of your inabilty to discuss an extremely simple and relevant point. I didn't make anything up about him as you suggested. English is not your first language is it?Some idiot comes here and suggests that gays should be put to death and I take him to task on it. Don't give me any crap about he doesn't believe it, or it's being taken out of context.He directly quoted instructions that he lives his life by stating that gays should be killedYou have no problems with that??

He did not say that gays should be killed, he says the Bible's Old Testament has advice on that, and that it means at the very least that homosexual acts are a sin.I do have a problem with anyone saying someone else "should be killed." I'm anti-death penalty.No, I do NOT believe that fiction has any place in real life discussion. I would never think to quote Harry Potter or The Odyssey when I was talking about a serious subject. If you are amused by someone quoting a book that you believe to be in the same category as the latter titles, say to yourself "This is fiction and a nonsense conversation" and move on.

[mrdannyg 274]

My point, which I may not have made clear, is that as a heterosexual with no homosexual leanings I don't see why anyone would ever choose to engage in any homosexual activity. To see it as a choice implies a tacit acknowledgement of seeing the appeal.

an interesting point.i can only say that as also a heterosexual male with no homosexual leanings, i don't find it hard to see why people would engage in homosexual activity. its never interested me, but i also don't understand why i find a certain shape of woman to be distractingly attractive, and only figure that homosexual people feel the same way, just with different targets.i think you make a good conclusion based on your argument, i just find it odd that you cannot "see" why anyone would choose to engage in homosexual activity.

[jeff_536 3]

The bible doesn't say it's wrong to be Black. Your analogy is not the same.

Wow....just wow....That's the most stunning thing i've read in a while.So you're saying if the bible DID say it was wrong to be black you'd agree with it?Didn't your god give us free will?

[custom36 4]

Excellent question Farnan. I sincerely mean that. This is a touchy subject (obviously). NOTE: THIS IS MY OPINION AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE

I can respect that. And I (along with anyone else with the possibility of living with the same sex) would agree with you. The problem is that the only other option right now, civil unions, does not provide the same benefits as marriage. The conservatives say it does, but it doesn't. The only equal option right now is same-sex marriage - thus, that's what we're pushing for.

[mrdannyg 274]

The bible doesn't say it's wrong to be Black. Your analogy is not the same.

the bible does have several passages that say or imply that being of lighter skin is better, or that being dark-skinned or brown-skinned is inferior.

[custom36 4]

Old Testament vs. New Testament . . . I won't even began to try and explain. It does no good anyway.

Dude, you're the one that brought it up. I was just pointing out it's ridiculousness.

The bible doesn't say it's wrong to be Black. Your analogy is not the same.

In the 1800's and early 1900's, before the black equal rights movement, christian preachers across the country taught their congregations that God said in the Bible that it's a sin to be black.

[FOOSE1 0]

I can respect that. And I (along with anyone else with the possibility of living with the same sex) would agree with you. The problem is that the only other option right now, civil unions, does not provide the same benefits as marriage. The conservatives say it does, but it doesn't. The only equal option right now is same-sex marriage - thus, that's what we're pushing for.

Thank you custom. I respect that. That does not mean I agree with it, but I do respect your decision. My opinions are biblically based because I believe in what the Bible teaches. Some people can not seem to understand that just because I believe in what the Bible teaches does not mean I am totally intolerant to gay people. I have the understanding of what trials gay couples are faced with because I know one. I wish you luck in the future and mean know ill-will because of my beliefs.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Didn't your god give us free will?

Yep, meaning we have the freedom to make choices independent of His will. "Free Will" does not imply you can do as you wish without consequence. You can't even do that in our secular society.

Yep, meaning we have the freedom to make choices independent of His will. "Free Will" does not imply you can do as you wish without consequence. You can't even do that in our secular society.

One thing I struggle with is whether I, as a Christian, should attempt restrict free will of others if I don't see that will as being destructive to society. For instance, if the Bible say homosexual action is wrong, should I vote for a Gay Marriage Amendment, etc? That's hard. I wouldn't do it, but it's hard.

[jeff_536 3]

Yep, meaning we have the freedom to make choices independent of His will. "Free Will" does not imply you can do as you wish without consequence. You can't even do that in our secular society.

I meant free will in deciding for yourself how you feel about issues like homosexuality.too many people give up their right to form an opinion using the bible as an excuse.For crying out loud, think for yourselves.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I meant free will in deciding for yourself how you feel about issues like homosexuality.too many people give up their right to form an opinion using the bible as an excuse.For crying out loud, think for yourselves.

LOL You have thus revealed the error in your ways.I know what you meant, but you meant wrong as far as Christians think.And you have it backwards: I do not give up my right to form an opinion. My opinions have nothing to do with with what I believe is a "sin". The Bible is not an excuse for "not thinking for myself", the Bible and the Church is the REASON why I hold some things to be "true" that you do not.

[Petoria 0]

My only problem with arguments like this is that you can't cite the Bible, bc so many things that it says are archaic and have no meaning in today's world. Who are we to determine what to pick and choose from the Bible to believe as God's law handed down. Example: God said gay is bad, so we believe the gay lifestyle is a sin.God said slavery is good, but we won't believe in that one because......well.......ummmm....I guess we'll just ignore that one and say that God was just preaching to those people at the time in a language they could understand.Do you see why?Also, if there's such a big difference between Old Testament and New Testament, implying that New Testament is more of the word to live by, then don't use Old Testament passages.

[SunDrop 0]

Yeah...gay marriage is so bad.How dare we let two men who love each other get married. Think of how many divorces that would bring! I mean they are going to ruin marriage. There hasn't been a divorce in this country since 1974...let's keep it that way!

[DonkSlayer 1]

Yeah...gay marriage is so bad.How dare we let two men who love each other get married. Think of how many divorces that would bring! I mean they are going to ruin marriage. There hasn't been a divorce in this country since 1974...let's keep it that way!

[MDXS 0]

an interesting point.i can only say that as also a heterosexual male with no homosexual leanings, i don't find it hard to see why people would engage in homosexual activity. its never interested me, but i also don't understand why i find a certain shape of woman to be distractingly attractive, and only figure that homosexual people feel the same way, just with different targets.i think you make a good conclusion based on your argument, i just find it odd that you cannot "see" why anyone would choose to engage in homosexual activity.

I don't think I did a good job of making some of the subtleties of what I was saying clear. I certainly see why some people engage in homosexual activity and don't find it odd, or strange or anything like that. Some people are attracted to their own sex. It's a predisposition and that's what my original point rests upon. Bascially, I would never, ever choose it, so I'm questioning the feelings of those that call it a choice. Heh...I think I've said all I can about this point. I'm ready to move on.

[speedz99 145]

Leviticus 18:22" 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.Leviticus 20:13" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.This is as simple as it gets. I've said it before . . . GOD created Adam and Eve . . . not Adam and Steve. The Bible is very clear on this point.

Oh my god. People like this actually exist. It's so freakin' scary. I haven't even read the rest of the thread, because I can't handle the stupidity. Custom, why did you even start this? You know these people have no logical reasoning skills due to the brainwashing.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Oh my god. People like this actually exist. It's so freakin' scary. I haven't even read the rest of the thread, because I can't handle the stupidity. Custom, why did you even start this? You know these people have no logical reasoning skills due to the brainwashing.

In the voice of the bus driver of the Simpsons, a-hem.."Dude so like...I don't get how...this "faith" thing...meehh..brainwashing maybe?...i use logic man...logic tells me my soul's ok....logic gives me hope for the future...logic tells me everrrything I need to know, Bro."

[custom36 4]

Custom, why did you even start this? You know these people have no logical reasoning skills due to the brainwashing.

I like banging my head against a wall.It's entertaining.And there's always that dillusional hope that you can get through to someone.

[FOOSE1 0]

Oh my god. People like this actually exist. It's so freakin' scary. I haven't even read the rest of the thread, because I can't handle the stupidity. Custom, why did you even start this? You know these people have no logical reasoning skills due to the brainwashing.

By "these people" you mean people that don't agree with the way you think . . . right? I mean that is your point, correct? So if someone disagrees with you and YOUR beliefs they are stupid? While you are the ever knowing . . . ???????The pathetic thing is when you said, "due to the brainwashing". That is funny. You can't even wrap your little mind around the fact that there are people in this world (quite a few actually) that actually believe in GOD. I know . . . I know . . . I've been brain washed . . . I believe in GOD . . . I'm a Freak.

[crazyIvan 0]

This was a reasonable and thoughtful post. I respectfully disagree of course, but am impressed with the care that went into the writing. No SW.This is how reasonable people discuss an issue on which they disagree.Isn't Ivan Catholic?

Ivan used to be Catholic. Until the Catholic church decided that a divorce that saved the lives of 4 people was wrong and those 4 people were not allowed in their church anymore.