A Leak, Weakness

[Actuary 3]

hi.I'm absolutely the greatest Party 6 Man 20+2 SnG player the world has ever witnessedBut, for a sec, pretend I am not and help me with this leak, please!often when we are down to 3-4 handed.top two pay.Blinds maybe 50/100 and Ave stack 3000.I raise to 175 with AQ in EP, BB calls. He calls every betFlop comes 48TBB bets out 1/2 - 2/3 pot.I foldWhen do you stop folding to these donk bets with no draw no pair, except over cards. Or is it correct to give them credit for a hand every time?I do raise arbitrarily sometimes and they fold usually, but it's a risk when I completely miss.loaded question?Hopefully you all can give some insight

[krup24 0]

Unfortunately I do this also by giving too much credit. But I always get my man.

[budfox427 0]

That's not that big of a leak. that pot is way to small to really even worry over. I fold hands like that all the time. Its annoying, especially when you are sure you are still ahead, but it usually leads me to be able to trap the villain in later hands. I think re-raising here to scoop a small pot over the long run will lose you a lot more when your opponent hits than it does adding up all those small pots.

[Suited_Up 2]

Sure you raised to 175 w/ blinds at 50/100?

[HangukMiguk 8]

Sure you raised to 175 w/ blinds at 50/100?

we all knew it. actuary is rigged.

[Actuary 3]

Sure you raised to 175 w/ blinds at 50/100?

ooops..I meant 3.5x BB...so say 350.Now we're tallking a decent pot here after BB calls and leads out.thanks Kurt..

[strategy 4]

Funny, I thought I was the best at the Party $55 6-man level, too. After one tournament, I am showing 144% ROI! Sustainable? Of course.The structure is slow enough to get a feel for who actually has a hand when they bet and who is loose-aggressive. Having spent most of my time playing tournaments on Stars, I was shocked to see what they were doing in my SNG. There were a few tight-aggressive players, but it was mostly fishy. Ok, enough rambling. My point is this: I've done pretty well at the lower limits by folding in these spots unless someone gives me a good reason not to. ABC is best until it becomes apparent that someone is getting out of line. It sucks, but the alternative is firing bullets with ace-high into someone who intends to check and call you the rest of the way with bottom pair, jack-kicker. Just my two cents.

[mk 11]

If you get the feeling someone is stop-and-go-ing you to death, don't be afraid to pop him on the flop every once in a while when you miss, just to keep him honest. It definitely gets tougher and tougher to do this when the blinds get bigger, which is why the stop and go is such a powerful move in tourneys. Just be aware that good players utilize this move and sometimes they do it too often.Sometimes when I feel like I'm up against a stop-and-go, I'll just call the flop bet in position and see what he does on the turn. This way you can control the pot size a little more, and if he led into you with air on the flop your call will sometimes stop him in his tracks. Then you can take the pot on the turn.

[Rocketwadster 0]

He calls every betMaybe this is the problem/solution??? If we know the BB is going to defend every bet, should we not be changing our play to compensate?

[Actuary 3]

He calls every betMaybe this is the problem/solution??? If we know the BB is going to defend every bet, should we not be changing our play to compensate?

He calls all preflop bets.Keep it in context.So don't raise preflop 4 handed with AQ?I'll raise to 2.5-3.5 x BB.*****and yes, I have found that putting in a raise on the flop can take the pot away..maybe slow him down... but risky too..and some keep coming.... it's a tactic I"m not comfortable playing myself as regularly as thy do, although it seems effective against tights like me...*****oh..and I'm even more awesome at the 30+3's!out of 12: 5 wins, 3 2nds, 4 no cash

[Rocketwadster 0]

He calls all preflop bets.Keep it in context.So don't raise preflop 4 handed with AQ?

I have kept in context, and I never said to not raise with AQ pre-flop when four handed, I've simply stated that if you know you are going to be called regardless of his hole cards, then you need to change your gameplan somehow IMO. I know your options are limited in a SNG due to blinds sizes/stack sizes, but if you keep doing the same thing AND he keeps doing the same thing to put you to a decision, then something needs to be changed. Reminds me of one of Doyle's little stories about slapping someone in the head...lol

[Actuary 3]

Rocket,that's cute and all.But be specific.Change plan how?I'm doing fine.... when I get a hand..I usually take a lot from these types... but please give advice not cutsie quips.thanks!

[Rocketwadster 0]

Rocket,that's cute and all.But be specific.Change plan how?I'm doing fine.... when I get a hand..I usually take a lot from these types... but please give advice not cutsie quips.thanks!

I did give advice - you need to change something. It is hard to say exactly what, as every situation that you have placed yourself in, the chip stacks will be different, plus the opponent will be different (ie. two people may defend their BB with anything and lead out to any flop, but only one may call all-in with bottom pair). Your original post did not contain a specific hand example, but a generic type question. Give specifics, and people will be able to answer with specifics.Maybe raising 3-4X (or more) the BB pre-flop is the answer (my preference - push your stronger hands harder), maybe min-raising/limping is. The other table members will influence your decisions as well, so there may be tables where you can min-raise/limp and still be heads-up the majority of the time (which I see a lot around the bubble). Then, when you miss the flop completely, and your opponent leads into you, you have committed less chips so you can let it go much cheaper, or, play back at him, for roughly the same amount of chips as the way you were playing it.

[blakheart 3]

I think it is a great question, and it is hard to defend against the stop and go. It is similiar to a continuation bet in that it only has to work sometimes for it to be effective for him. Some possible defenses all rap arond the idea of being more aggressive. You could bet more preflop, you could min raise him on the flop. You could call the flop and then raise the turn. Personally, I like the big raise on the flop when it comes ragged like that. It could not have hit him very hard, and your are representing an over pair or a set really well. He not only will lay it down, but he might slow down against you. The flop misses every one most of the time. If it is a real ragged unsuited flop, Chances are it missed him. If it comes Jack high and then you come over the top, He has to put you on at least AJ, if not QQ. The other option, is to call him down with a made hand. If he keeps firing and you keep calling, he will slow down against you next time you raise preflop. That really slow him down. This is a tough opponent to crack, and I am mostly going by how I try to counter the auto continuation bet guy.

[Actuary 3]

I'm not sure I want to change muich about the preflop play for 1 oppponets of 3. I don't want to limp AJ now...or over play KQ just because of this one player.but yes, I see how you need to consider adjusting

[blakheart 3]

there may be tables where you can min-raise/limp and still be heads-up the majority of the time (which I see a lot around the bubble). Then, when you miss the flop completely, and your opponent leads into you, you have committed less chips so you can let it go much cheaper, or, play back at him, for roughly the same amount of chips as the way you were playing it.

I like that idea too, limping in or min raising give you more post flop room to work with out getting pot committed.

[Actuary 3]

I have begun keeping my preflop raises all within a tight range, hoping to not give off AA-QQ vs when I raise with JS2 or K8 on the buttonTo me, this helps with the ability to pop the flop when he donks into me.Because it's not "Well..I bet 5x BB and he still leadss out to me..hmm..he must be strong" ...

[blakheart 3]

I'm not sure I want to change muich about the preflop play for 1 oppponets of 3. I don't want to limp AJ now...or over play KQ just because of this one player.but yes, I see how you need to consider adjusting

When there are only four players left, and one is being very active, I think your strategy has to adjust for him. Your strategy is based on random opponents. In this case you have a specific opponent. If you don't adjust, he will grind you down. You will lose 3 out of 4 pots against him (assuming you miss 3 out 4 times) and will slowly be pushed to make an overly aggressive play. He has told you his strategy, and he is the table captain. You need to teach him to let you win pots. playing back at someone is very effective, he will find someone else to pick on. I really like the idea of betting less then reraising him on theflop. It not only risks the same amount of chips, but you might be able to steal his blinds later with min raises.I don't know, something to consider.

[Actuary 3]

when I bet less, I let more trash in.I limp a lot more than most do 4 handed, tha;ts for sure (most here I mean..lots of limpers out there!)He's not neccessarily the Captian, more of the nuisance.Sometimes this player has a decent stack..just as often they have less than me, and in the long run, I get bigger pots off of them.I'm glad to hear that arbitrarily popping flops that likely missed him can be an effective defense. As I noted in op.I appreciate all help..I listen, even if I argue back!But when it's done effectively and I have no hands and blinds get higher and I was not deep stacked...yep... I need to figure a plan out.

[iggymcfly 0]

When you have a relatively large stack, (which it looks like you do), I think a good play is to just call the probe bet on the flop and reevaluate the turn. A lot of time if they really have nothing (or just a weak pair), they'll check on the turn and let you take it away with a bet. Even if they do have something like top pair, you've still probably got 6 outs on the turn, so the equity you lose is minimal. I think this is usually a lot better play than commiting a lot of chips with a raise when you have no idea where you stand. I think I might have picked this play up from watching DN on TV, as a lot of times, he'll "call for information" when he's got nothing but a weak draw, and then take the pot away as soon as his opponents show weakness.

[blakheart 3]

Trust me- I don't pretend to know every answer- I still have a real job. And I think this is a common but tricky situation, trying to counter an aggressive opponent. I like the discussion, we all face variations of this think from time to time.Your points are sound, I am just sounding out some counter measures that I have tried. Arguing a point is a great way to validate a thought, I take no offense to you having a different opinion or even taking a different side. Often times playing devils advocate is a good idea in these discussions, it strengthens the overall understanding.I don't play six handed sit n gos much, but in a MTT often times if I come over the top of an aggressive player even once it slows him down against me. He will find an easier target, and then leave me alone. Great question Actuary, I like the discussion.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I don't play six handed sit n gos much

It doesn't really matter if this is a 6-man SNG, 9/10-man SNG, or a 6500 person MTT IMO, as the question is related to bubble play IMO. Similar situations do arise throughout the tourney well before the bubble, but it plays much differently in those cases (much easier to do what you want ie. fold, re-raise etc.)

[Actuary 3]

it may go w/o saying, but i play about 1/1000000000000000000 of the hands the others play when 5-6 and even 4 handed, I'm the tightest, usually. So I may be perceived as a target.boy do I show down a lot of winner though.Which, imo, helps me resteal some of these donk bets, and get them in line.But some of these boogers are persistant.

[blakheart 3]

Ignore the loose preflop raise- here is an example that we talked about. He had done this to me and others in this tournament. I just played this hand right now.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG+1 (t1867)MP1 (t2665)MP2 (t2390)Hero (t2925)CO (t2050)Button (t1545)SB (t1575)BB (t2665)UTG (t1023)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9, T. 4 folds, Hero raises to t100, 3 folds, BB calls t70.Flop: (t215) 5, 6, 5(2 players)BB bets t60, Hero raises to t200, BB folds.Final Pot: t475

[iggymcfly 0]

Oh, if they lead for less than a third of the pot, that's a different story. That's almost always a desperate steal that will fold to any raise.