Folding Pp's Pf

[myenemy 0]

What is the concensus as to how large a raise to fold to with a PP PF? I play middle and low PP's pretty standard, limp early and middle, limp and sometimes raise late. I usually call smallish raises in position and fold to double raises for the same amount. Incidentally, lastnight I open raised (4-5x BB) in MP with JJ and the BB tripled my bet, I folded. I think it was a situation that being in position was actually being out of position, so Id need to flop a set or be prepared to call or raise a big bet to an all under board. Thoughts?

[Canada 0]

What is the concensus as to how large a raise to fold to with a PP PF? I play middle and low PP's pretty standard, limp early and middle, limp and sometimes raise late. I usually call smallish raises in position and fold to double raises for the same amount. Incidentally, lastnight I open raised (4-5x BB) in MP with JJ and the BB tripled my bet, I folded. I think it was a situation that being in position was actually being out of position, so Id need to flop a set or be prepared to call or raise a big bet to an all under board. Thoughts?

Calling with drawing hands is all about implied odds, so the #1 concern is stack sizes

[GABMAD 0]

What is the concensus as to how large a raise to fold to with a PP PF? I play middle and low PP's pretty standard, limp early and middle, limp and sometimes raise late. I usually call smallish raises in position and fold to double raises for the same amount. Incidentally, lastnight I open raised (4-5x BB) in MP with JJ and the BB tripled my bet, I folded. I think it was a situation that being in position was actually being out of position, so Id need to flop a set or be prepared to call or raise a big bet to an all under board. Thoughts?

You must of had a really strong read.

[Kaedin 0]

if their remaining stack size is atleast 10 times the size of the raise you're calling, its generally okay to call.

[rkard 0]

stack size is one thing but it doesn't mean jack if the person you're calling can get away from his hand and doesn't commit on a missed flop.So the thing you need to consider is whether the person you're calling would commit all his chips/have problems laying his hand down if he misses when your set hits.Generally I won't call as much against a solid player who knows how to correctly c-bet a missed flop or overpair. In your situation I'd only call if I knew it was a loose player, if villain isn't then he's going to be sitting on an overpair the majority of times and it's going to be a break-even play AT BEST.

[gooch 0]

Depends on the player, are you going to stack them if you hit your trips? If they are going to fall in love with their overpair then I might.Some guys will give you all five cards cheap, and then push the river with no "scare cards", if you have trips it's usually easy money.

[MasterLJ 0]

What is the concensus as to how large a raise to fold to with a PP PF? I play middle and low PP's pretty standard, limp early and middle, limp and sometimes raise late. I usually call smallish raises in position and fold to double raises for the same amount. Incidentally, lastnight I open raised (4-5x BB) in MP with JJ and the BB tripled my bet, I folded. I think it was a situation that being in position was actually being out of position, so Id need to flop a set or be prepared to call or raise a big bet to an all under board. Thoughts?

I like the fold.I try to see the flop with any pp as cheaply as possible. I'm letting go of just about any pp to a significant re-raise, barring that I have a read that makes it so I should be calling (against a maniac).

[kcb 0]

He could have been RR with A/K.. Why not call and see a flop here?

[nomad_monad 0]

He could have been RR with A/K.. Why not call and see a flop here?

Depends. I like the fold of JJ as well depending on stack sizes. But if stacks are such that the villain's likely flop bet and a call by you won't commit either of you to the hand, then I'd probably take the flop.Also, a 3x reraise coming out of the blinds is usually a pretty strong hand. I think without a solid read you have to give the opponent credit for *at least* AK, but probably better.

[MasterLJ 0]

He could have been RR with A/K.. Why not call and see a flop here?

He definitely could re-raise with AK, but that's only one of 4 hands (AA,KK,QQ,AK) that would re-raise. The other 3 hands have you dominated so I'm not sure what sort of flop you want to see that would make you feel good about your hand. If you're reduced to playing your pp for set value only HU against a re-raiser you need to fold because you are not getting the odds to call (need 7.5 to 1 to call).

[reedmcneal 0]

He could have been RR with A/K.. Why not call and see a flop here?

It also could have been AA, KK, or QQ. What if there is a 7-hi flop and he pushes? Best case scenario he has AK, but still has his 6 outs. Worst case, you are drawing to two outs. What if overcard/s come and he pushes? You will probably fold. You only have a 12% shot at that set, so it's hard to call if you are just drawing to that.I think you really have to have a little more information on the opponent to make any substantial conclusions here, but knowing nothing, I would fold. If you call here, you have to be prepared to push/call an all-in if babies come out on the flop.

[NoSup4U 0]

I'm seldom concerned about anything other than stack sizes when considering whether to call a raise with a pp.As people have said, the general rule is that you need to be able to get at least 10X the raise from the player. Meaning both your stack and their stack needs to be bigger than that.Even good players can't easily get away from top pair or an overpair for less than 10X their initial raise. If you and one other person both call, its near impossible.There are situations where I wouldn't, like a tight passive player raises big, and nobody calls. Also what your image is matters. If you're super tight, you'll get paid off less. But based on this question I'm guessing you want a general rule. Mine is, if I can possibly make 10X the raise from them, then I will call.

[jjherrick 0]

What is the concensus as to how large a raise to fold to with a PP PF? I play middle and low PP's pretty standard, limp early and middle, limp and sometimes raise late. I usually call smallish raises in position and fold to double raises for the same amount. Incidentally, lastnight I open raised (4-5x BB) in MP with JJ and the BB tripled my bet, I folded. I think it was a situation that being in position was actually being out of position, so Id need to flop a set or be prepared to call or raise a big bet to an all under board. Thoughts?

I would want to know if it is a ring game or a tournament. I play them differently. The odds of hitting a set on the flop with a PP is 1 in 8. So this is a case where you need to think of implied odds. In a tournament, where chips are precious, if the player you are going against is the kind that folds to any pressure then you might not get value out of your set. But if they are aggressive and you are likely to make back more the 8x your initial chip investment then it is worth calling some larger bets.In a ring game, where you can rebuy, I am not afraid of calling a standard raise with my small or middle PP. Sets are the type of hands that get paid off really well because they are hard to see. Even if you need to tighten up your hand selection in order to play these, for the money, it is worth it. I would rather go into a hand with 55 then AT. Why? because when the flop comes out T52, I am likely to paid off much better then with the AT. In the ring games I play, the only people that play back at a bet on a flop like that is somebody already ahead of you.Call a raise with AT and you hit the T and get alot of pressure, it is likely they have JJ, QQ, or KK. When you hit the Ace and bet, and get lots of pressure with just a T kicker are you really that confident they don't have AJ. These are tough decisions.With 55 the decision is easy, I hit the flop, I play aggressive, or I miss the flop , I check and hope to get a free card. If you get a lot of action with out a set, I can easily bail.If there is no raise before me and I am in position, I will raise enough with my middle or small PP to get it heads up or 3-way. That way you have two ways to win, you can either hit a set or bet it if it is checked to you. If you raise in position and a scare card hits and it is checked to you, it is possible to take the pot without the set.