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99 - Did I Do Anything Right?


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Fairly new to the table and honestly not paying much attention. MP1 is loose and generally bad.Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is SB with 9club.gif, 9spade.gif. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.I figure there'll be at least 4 to the flop so calling here looking for a set seems worthwhile.Flop: (10 SB) 8diamond.gif, 8club.gif, 6club.gif(5 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.Excellent flop for me. I check expecting it to check around to B and I can c/r and hopefully cleanup the field and see how B reacts. UTG betting and MP calling aren't what I anticipate but when B folds I figure I'm likely good and raise anyway. Once it's 3-bet I don't think I'm good often enough to cap but figure the pots big enough to call.Turn: (11 BB) 2heart.gif(4 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.Still have an overpair. Still worth calling? If it were HU I wouldn't even consider folding but with this many people ....River: (15 BB) 4heart.gif(4 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero ?Still have an overpair but can I overcall here with BB yet to act? No flush, no likely str8, big pocket pairs are fairly unlikely given the PF action.

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i'd 3-bet pre-flop. hopefully it will knock out the bb and limpers. its the best way to protect your hand and get it heads up with the button.the rest looks fine. i'm calling down here.

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I think there are two reasonable lines here. - call down UI- fold the turnWithout good reads I'd lean towards folding the turn. Most unknowns don't bluff into 5 person pots. We also need to dodge a lot of overs on the river. With a read that UTG is over agg or prone to bluffing I think it's a call down UI. The read on MP was good enough to discount his holding to something we beat.The thing not to do is what I actually did - call the turn and fold the river.

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all 3 of them?overs to dodgestright drawsflush drawswe aren't closing actionUTG is usually beating us
UTG is not usually beating us , and without any sort of a read in a big pot I'm not folding here. I don't know how to battle against overs here, part of me wants to raise the blank turn since there are a decent number of stragglers and we should have the best hand a majority of the time.edit: damnit, just realized you c/r the flop (i thought UTG bet into you and you raised him, then he three bet). Ok now i'm lost. Yeah back to fold turn or call down UI. I'll just leave the above for humorous purposes.
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UTG is not usually beating us , and without any sort of a read in a big pot I'm not folding here. I don't know how to battle against overs here, part of me wants to raise the blank turn since there are a decent number of stragglers and we should have the best hand a majority of the time.edit: damnit, just realized you c/r the flop (i thought UTG bet into you and you raised him, then he three bet). Ok now i'm lost. Yeah back to fold turn or call down UI. I'll just leave the above for humorous purposes.
given the PF action, isn't an 8 a perfectly logical card for someone to have?
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tough to say without any reads whatsoever. How often you hyou have an 8 UTG?
What is UTG playing like this on the flop and turn that we beat?There are a TON more players at this level playing 8x UTG than betting/raising a draw here, imo.HU, we play.. but I think we are behind/lose too often to go to SD.
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What is UTG playing like this on the flop and turn that we beat?There are a TON more players at this level playing 8x UTG than betting/raising a draw here, imo.HU, we play.. but I think we are behind/lose too often to go to SD.
Well since you asked ... UTG had AJo and MP1 had a 6. Later in the session I'd have called down - UTG bluffed a number of times I could see and MP was nearly 60% to the flop and loved to call down.I'd guess that 90% of the time we're 3-bet on this flop with this many people in the hand UTG has us beat. If we're facing trip 8s most of the time there's no reason to call the turn. I even told myself that when I called the 3-bet on the flop. The undercards on the turn made me waver. I folded the river mostly fearing that BB was slowplaying trips and would raise behind me.
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personally when I first saw this hand I thought after you get a flop call between you and the raiser, I call the flop and pop a safe turn. There could be lots of bad cards coming, and your flop raise isn't really protecting your hand... Pretty much every hand has odds to call.Can we get some discussion on the merits of waiting for a turn raise VS a flop raise?

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personally when I first saw this hand I thought after you get a flop call between you and the raiser, I call the flop and pop a safe turn. There could be lots of bad cards coming, and your flop raise isn't really protecting your hand... Pretty much every hand has odds to call.Can we get some discussion on the merits of waiting for a turn raise VS a flop raise?
Interesting thought. If there were more "safe" turns cards I'd really like it. But here ... What's safe? 2-4 non club? You're looking at 9 cards. A 5 is reasonably safe. A 7 gives us a str8 draw. On this particular board if you're waiting for a safe turn you can probably just fold the flop.One of the bad things I do (and I think others do as well) is come up with an idea of how the round is supposed to play and then not adapt when it doesn't happen that way. In my mind I'd check the flop and it'd check around to B (the PFR) who would bet and I could face the field with 2 cold. When the bet came from UTG, MP1 calls and B folds its a rather different situation. Perhaps you can argue a fold here but I don't think so. You're right though that with a bet and a call our flop raise is unlikely to take it right there. I think however that the flop lead is often enough a 6 that we can raise like this and look to take it down on the turn. Though I'm not totally convinced that the wait until the turn line doesn't work at least as well.
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I bet the flop. I understand your reasoning and it's a sound stratagy. Here's why I bet the flop. The BB will expect a raise from the original raiser and decide if he wants to get trapped. The villian will raise here with many hands and then it's 2 bets to the players behind him instead of the players getting trapped in the hand. The villian may just call, which tells us nothing, but it's safe to think he has overcards. That probably didn't make a lick of sense. Summery, I bet the flop and take it from there.The river with that board, you're beat but I still call.now im going to go back and read the responsesEdit: I just read the responses. It just started to rain outside and my windows are cracked. I should go close them.

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I bet the flop. I understand your reasoning and it's a sound stratagy. Here's why I bet the flop. The BB will expect a raise from the original raiser and decide if he wants to get trapped. The villian will raise here with many hands and then it's 2 bets to the players behind him instead of the players getting trapped in the hand. The villian may just call, which tells us nothing, but it's safe to think he has overcards. That probably didn't make a lick of sense. Summery, I bet the flop and take it from there.
Please. Most players don't think that hard when playing. With our relative position, c/r this flop is absolutely ideal. We need to protect our hand, because it will be best most often here. We need to face the field with 2 cold and have them fold their overs, or pay dearly to draw to them.- Zach
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Please. Most players don't think that hard when playing. With our relative position, c/r this flop is absolutely ideal. We need to protect our hand, because it will be best most often here. We need to face the field with 2 cold and have them fold their overs, or pay dearly to draw to them.- Zach
Your correct. I misread that the Button was the initial raiser not MP+1 that took the lead on the flop. so a c/r IS the right play.I did close my windows without too much rain getting in my truck.
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Your correct. I misread that the Button was the initial raiser not MP+1 that took the lead on the flop. so a c/r IS the right play.I did close my windows without too much rain getting in my truck.
ok..and now we can fold the turn.We protected and got some good info on that flop play.
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ok..and now we can fold the turn.We protected and got some good info on that flop play.
Agreed. Against an unknown. Now lets assume you have the read that I had later. UTG is over-aggressive and prone to bluffing. MP1 is very loose and loves to call. Do you still fold the turn? I think the answer is still yes because even calling stations and maniacs wake up with a hand now and then and given the flop action it's likely that one of them has a hand.
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