I Don't Understand How To Play Limit Hold'em Tournaments

[Bubba83 0]

For example, I have like 920 chips 60/120 blinds in a $5 donkfest on Full Tilt. UTG+1 limps, I raise in MP with Kc Qc, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop comes 2s 8d 10sWhat the hell am I supposed to do? If I bet no one is going to fold... So it checks to me and I check. CO bets, button folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Do I call getting those kind of odds? Limit annoys me in these situations where I am kinda commited but then always totally miss the flop, and there are always 3-4 people in every hand so I don't understand how I'm every supposed to accumulate any chips unless I get lucky enough to actually hit flops, which never seems to happen.Help please...

[budfox427 0]

I have the same problem.......well, that and my limit game sucks donkey nuts......, so thanks for posting the question.But I railed a tourney over on Bodog the other night and the play seemed abslutely atrocious, so I am ultra curious.

[Filesharer 0]

I reckon you have to actually hit the flop or you have no chance in limit tourneys. Bluffing was completely pointless in all the games i played. In your situation I think you just have to fold, and try and double up in the next round or two.

[Drwnded 0]

You play Limit tournies much the same way you play limit holdem in general, so if you plan on playing limit tournies frequently, you may want to read a good limit text, such as Sklansky's Holdem for Advanced Players, or Ed Miller's Small Stakes Holdem. This hand highlights a few of the differences between limit and NLHE. You cannot control the odds you offer your opponents when betting the flop like you can in No Limit. Continuation bets are -EV against multiple opponents in general. You either flop a hand, or a draw to a hand, and then bet or raise depending on your objective. You have to employ the check raise much more often. You, and your opponents, can stick around and draw much more often after the flop b/c of the odds offered.Usually if you completely miss the flop with two overcards against multiple opponents in limit, you'll be checking/folding. In this case, b/c the pot's so large, you need to calculate your outs and see if you have odds to call. In this hand, you have no hand and no draw, so your only potential outs are 3 k's and 3 q's. Obviously, the Ks and Qs may complete a flush for one of your opponents, and furthermore the CO may hold AQ or AK, further reducing your outs. I'd estimate you can figure you have about 3 outs maybe, meaning you need 3 to 44, or about 1 to 14 odds to call. You're getting about 1 to 12 odds to call a flop bet. I'd fold.

[TheRazor 0]

For example, I have like 920 chips 60/120 blinds in a $5 donkfest on Full Tilt.

So the flop is gonna cost 120 and the turn and river 240? That a sizeable portion of your stack.Join me in chanting: starting hand requirements, starting hand requirements, starting hand requirements.Starting hand requirements in relation to your chip position.

What the hell am I supposed to do? If I bet no one is going to fold...

Two things to remember in LH.1) It forces you to play the flop; play it well2) The turn is the most important street

[Bubba83 0]

I should have prefaced this. I have a good 5-6 years limit hold'em cash game experience both online and live. I would consider myself a good limit hold'em player and I think these tournaments play COMPLETELY different than cash games. Some of the concepts are still there but I know there is a strategy component when low on chips that I am completely missing. By the way, I did fold the Kc Qc there, and then the blinds hit me and I had to fold there too. Then I get 55 on the button but 3 people had limped in, I had 560 chips left and decide to just limp since raising will only commit me more, get no one out and I won't win this unless I flop a set. SB then raises, everyone including me calls but half my stack is in... I miss my set on the flop, now what? There's no way I have the best hand when they bet out, but if I fold here again, now it's going to take 2 double ups in a row just to get back to where I was before the Kc Qc hand.I understand that with the way my opponents are playing, that I can't help missing flops. In limit cashgames in loose games like this, I just wait til I hit one and then I extract maximum value out when I do, which works in limit cash games because I always have the cash in front of me to extract maximum value. This isn't the case in limit tournaments, if I don't catch anything early and get on a roll, then I don't even have enough money to benefit fully when I do catch a flop because I get so shortstacked.Anyways, I don't mean to come off like a ****, but I really don't need general advice about limit hold'em, rather need to know how the mindset changes for a tournament.

[FullMontyM1 0]

I am not at all a vastly experienced limit he player, so take my advice with a grain of salt.Whether is LHE or any limited stakes tourney, I think the most important thing you can do to increase your chances of cashing is be extraordinarily patient.For example, in a horse sng on FT (obviously just 10 people, but I think the concept is extendable), I played maybe 5 hands to the flop or 4th street for the first bazillion hands.There were 6 people eliminated before I showed a hand down, and the only reason -that- hand got showed down was it was against the 6th person who was completely pot-committed on their blind and so was all-in on 5th street after it was obvious I had made a flush.I picked up enough chips by blind-stealing or stealing on the flop/4th during the first half of the sng to survive moderate increases in the blinds, possibly because everyone viewed me as a rock who never played a hand (In reality I had absolutely no hands to play).Same thing in a stud tourney last night, just outlasted a large percentage of the field, picked some spots to pick up small pots and then started to get aggressive as the bubble approached.So in any limit tourney, I think the primary virtues are extreme patience combined with selective super-aggressiveness.Monty

[iggymcfly 0]

In donkfest tourneys like this, I think the key is actually to play a little looser than normal in terms of starting hand requirements for the first couple levels. That way you get to see a decent enough number of flops that you should actually be able to hit one or two. Then, when you do hit one, you can extract a lot of chips from people that call you down to the river with 22, and hopefully grow your stack enough that it will be able to survive in the higher levels until you pick up a solid hand there.As for what to do when you get shortstacked, I'm just as lost as you. In a NL tourney, I'll just push all-in whenever I play a hand, but in a limit tourney, I never know what to do when I raise a promising hand and miss the flop, but am already somewhat pot-committed due to all the chips I've put in. I really hate situations like that.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Don't play hands like KQs from MP after a limp.

[Zach6668 513]

Don't play hands like KQs from MP after a limp.

Really?I KQs

[Rocketwadster 0]

Really?I KQs

Not in Donkfest Limit SNG's at that stage of the tourney. Earlier maybe, but not later...

[Zach6668 513]

Not in Donkfest Limit SNG's at that stage of the tourney. Earlier maybe, but not later...

But it plays sooooooooo well multi-way!

[Rocketwadster 0]

But it plays sooooooooo well multi-way!

You didnt play it like you wanted it to be multi-way (but it ended up that way anyhow). It DOESN'T play well (either heads-up or multi-way) when you completely miss the flop either. You have created a larger pot, which will most likely result in hands as weak as middle-pair wanting to see at least the turn, if not the river.

[Zach6668 513]

You didnt play it like you wanted it to be multi-way (but it ended up that way anyhow). It DOESN'T play well (either heads-up or multi-way) when you completely miss the flop either. You have created a larger pot, which will most likely result in hands as weak as middle-pair wanting to see at least the turn, if not the river.

Meh, I think in the early stages of an LHE tourney, I'm limping a lot of stuff too try and hit a monster hand and build my stack up. That's just me. IMO, KQs is perfect for that.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Meh, I think in the early stages of an LHE tourney, I'm limping a lot of stuff too try and hit a monster hand and build my stack up. That's just me. IMO, KQs is perfect for that.

I agree, in the EARLY stages. With blinds at 60/120 and us having only 920 chips, this is not the time to be playing hands like this from MP after a limper IMO. If first in, not a bad time to raise and go for the steal/hit a monster flop, but once you miss, shut it down.

[Drwnded 0]

... I have a good 5-6 years limit hold'em cash game experience both online and live....Anyways, I don't mean to come off like a ****, but I really don't need general advice about limit hold'em, rather need to know how the mindset changes for a tournament.

My bad. Your original post just sounded like someone who's used to NLHE, and who didn't know how to proceed in limit after raising preflop and ending up multiway.

[Bubba83 0]

I don't understand what's so bad about playing a KQ suited while shorter stacked, the UTG+1 limper was loose, and I figure to have the best hand preflop. Also, thanks for the insight about being looser early to try and hit some flops and play better than the donks postflop, I'll definitely be giving that a try, it makes sense.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I don't understand what's so bad about playing a KQ suited while shorter stacked, the UTG+1 limper was loose, and I figure to have the best hand preflop. Also, thanks for the insight about being looser early to try and hit some flops and play better than the donks postflop, I'll definitely be giving that a try, it makes sense.

That right there IMO is one of the main differences between Limit tourneys and NL tourneys. NL tourneys, you can fire a continuation bet into ANY flop and take it down against hands that may be as weak as second pair. In Limit, you dont have that ability, especially in the later stages.

[Zach6668 513]

I agree, in the EARLY stages. With blinds at 60/120 and us having only 920 chips, this is not the time to be playing hands like this from MP after a limper IMO. If first in, not a bad time to raise and go for the steal/hit a monster flop, but once you miss, shut it down.

Most limit tourneys I play, at the 60/120 level, unless I suck, I will have a lot more than 920 chips.. like you start with 2K on the PP sngs, and 3K in the MTTs.

[ErikVegas 0]

I play lots of limit tournaments (one a week) so I have some good ides for you. In the situation you were in I would have played it like I had a big pocket pair or hit a set on the flop. You are too short stacked to fold at that point and I would rather bust out with KQ then get blinded out. I would have run a check raise on that flop. If you get called and miss the turn I would try the check raise again. On the river bet out, espescially if your opponent checked behind you on the turn. You would be amazed how many times I have taken down the pot on the river by representing a big hand the whole way. Besides with ony 920 chips left what do you have to lose?Erik

[Bubba83 0]

Most limit tourneys I play, at the 60/120 level, unless I suck, I will have a lot more than 920 chips.. like you start with 2K on the PP sngs, and 3K in the MTTs.

Full Tilt started me with 1500 and I was CARD DEAD!

I play lots of limit tournaments (one a week) so I have some good ides for you. In the situation you were in I would have played it like I had a big pocket pair or hit a set on the flop. You are too short stacked to fold at that point and I would rather bust out with KQ then get blinded out. I would have run a check raise on that flop. If you get called and miss the turn I would try the check raise again. On the river bet out, espescially if your opponent checked behind you on the turn. You would be amazed how many times I have taken down the pot on the river by representing a big hand the whole way. Besides with ony 920 chips left what do you have to lose?Erik

What do I have left to lose? If I play the hand the way you said, my tournament life. And if you think this isn't going to showdown in a $5 tourney where 4 people saw the flop, you're just wrong.

[Zach6668 513]

Full Tilt started me with 1500 and I was CARD DEAD!

You know what, I'm not even making my argument based on what was in the OP. I had no idea what the hand even was, so, for the record, I'm not calling you a bad player .I was just trying to refute Rocket's claim of not playing KQs.- Zach

[Rocketwadster 0]

I play lots of limit tournaments (one a week) Erik

What a contradiction that statement is...lolIf lots = 1 every seven days, what is the definition of playing 3 Limit SNG's per day, 5 days a week?

[Zach6668 513]

What a contradiction that statement is...lolIf lots = 1 every seven days, what is the definition of playing 3 Limit SNG's per day, 5 days a week?

Impossible!

[Rocketwadster 0]

Then call me Ethan Hunt (up until 2 weeks ago - when I cashed out from FCP and switched sites again).Back into cash games on this current site, until I clear that bonus, then back to the previous site for the tourneys.