KramitDaToad 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Show me an atheist and I'll show you a liar.... No one in the world could prove the non-existance of GOD or a creator. please refrain from saying your an atheist without fully understanding the meaning of the word.... Your more of a agnostic....Hi there sweetheart. How are you doing? Just a little nudge to let you know you've just made a complete *** of yourself. Let me show you something.Show me a theist and I'll show you a liar. No-one in the world can prove the existence of God or a creator. Please refrain from saying you're a theist without fully understanding the meaning of the word. You're more of an agnostic.See what I did there? (Apart from fixing your atrocious spelling)You have a nice day now. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Show me an atheist and I'll show you a liar.... No one in the world could prove the non-existance of GOD or a creator.then show me a christian and i'll show you a liar for the same reason lol. you presumably are an atheist when it comes to zeus - can you prove that he doesn't exist? by your definition every person in the world is an agnostic.no informed person's definition of atheism connotes belief that it can be proved absolutely that a creator does not exist. atheism is simply belief god is unlikely to exist based on evidence. the only people who seem to think atheism purports provability that god does not exist are ignorant christians. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 I chose to follow Jesus' beliefs because they completed me. Everything He taught spoke straight into my Spirit, which strengthen my respect for GOD and compelled me to not only believe in Jesus but also what He stood for. So its not that I am dictated by the beliefs of Jesus', its that His beliefs and mine are one in the same.does that include the teaching that everyone who doesn't seek the father through jesus will be eternally punished? Link to post Share on other sites
Shaffer 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Show me an atheist and I'll show you a liar.... No one in the world could prove the non-existance of GOD or a creator. please refrain from saying your an atheist without fully understanding the meaning of the word.... Your more of a agnostic....Reading through this statement several times, I am unable to decide whether you are truly that ignorant of what it means to be an atheist, or if you are playing dumb in an effort to hide your strawman. Regardless, for the record, neither I nor any atheist that I am aware of professes to be able to "prove" (in the rigid mathematical sense) the non-existence of a creator. This is a moot point.Of course I am unable to prove a negative. I cannot disprove the existence of invisible flying pink elephants, yet adamantly remain an invisible-pink-elephant-atheist (as is, I would wager, most of the rest of the world), for the same reason that I am an atheist regarding god-claims (which frankly strike me as no less ridiculous).Being an atheist is not a matter of what I can prove. What it actually means is that I put the burden of proof (or even the burden of any evidence whatsoever) upon the person making the existential claim, and challenge that that burden has not been met, and seems unlikely ever to be met.This does not imply a lack of personal security in my lack of a god-belief, which is what the word "agnosticism" implies; all my atheism means is that I consider stories of a god to be no less ridiculous than anything else anyone has ever pulled out of thin air. Link to post Share on other sites
bigstack1980 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Reading through this statement several times, I am unable to decide whether you are truly that ignorant of what it means to be an atheist, or if you are playing dumb in an effort to hide your strawman. Regardless, for the record, neither I nor any atheist that I am aware of professes to be able to "prove" (in the rigid mathematical sense) the non-existence of a creator. This is a moot point.Of course I am unable to prove a negative. I cannot disprove the existence of invisible flying pink elephants, yet adamantly remain an invisible-pink-elephant-atheist (as is, I would wager, most of the rest of the world), for the same reason that I am an atheist regarding god-claims (which frankly strike me as no less ridiculous).Being an atheist is not a matter of what I can prove. What it actually means is that I put the burden of proof (or even the burden of any evidence whatsoever) upon the person making the existential claim, and challenge that that burden has not been met, and seems unlikely ever to be met.This does not imply a lack of personal security in my lack of a god-belief, which is what the word "agnosticism" implies; all my atheism means is that I consider stories of a god to be no less ridiculous than anything else anyone has ever pulled out of thin air.what is there that I can say, that you don’t already know... because you are so smart that you figured out that GOD doesn’t exist... Talk about faith... and I did mean what I wrote... Sorry to disappoint you because of your disapproval of my choice of words and then try to bury me in the dirt with your "intelligent" choosing of words.You will never know who GOD is until you start to look.... and all the "intelligent" junk you been feed and believe in will continue to trip you up, every time you start your journey...Now I am sure that you will come back with a reply that tries to pick me apart... All I can say is have fun because all I know is when that day comes and we die.... One of us will be right and if you are a gambling man, which I believe you are, due to this being a poker forum.... I prefer my odds over yours... I have nothing to lose.... you my friend, have everything to lose.... Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 what is there that I can say, that you don’t already know... because you are so smart that you figured out that GOD doesn’t exist... Talk about faith... and I did mean what I wrote... Sorry to disappoint you because of your disapproval of my choice of words and then try to bury me in the dirt with your "intelligent" choosing of words.You will never know who GOD is until you start to look.... and all the "intelligent" junk you been feed and believe in will continue to trip you up, every time you start your journey...Now I am sure that you will come back with a reply that tries to pick me apart... All I can say is have fun because all I know is when that day comes and we die.... One of us will be right and if you are a gambling man, which I believe you are, due to this being a poker forum.... I prefer my odds over yours... I have nothing to lose.... you my friend, have everything to lose....Oh dear. Please don't tell me you just threw in Pascal's Wager.I see little hope for this one. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 You will never know who GOD is until you start to look.... and all the "intelligent" junk you been feed and believe in will continue to trip you up, every time you start your journey...yes the only way to find god is to clear you mind of "intelligent junk" (reason) and seek only with your emotions. cult speak.All I can say is have fun because all I know is when that day comes and we die.... One of us will be right and if you are a gambling man, which I believe you are, due to this being a poker forum.... I prefer my odds over yours... I have nothing to lose.... you my friend, have everything to lose....pascal was bordline insane when he came up with his "wager". i assume you are just ignorant.anyway, if that is your reasoning you presumably are also a muslim, hindu etc, so you can hedge your bets. otherwise you're taking a huge risk yourself and you do have everything to lose. Link to post Share on other sites
Shaffer 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 what is there that I can say, that you don’t already know... because you are so smart that you figured out that GOD doesn’t exist... Talk about faith... and I did mean what I wrote... Sorry to disappoint you because of your disapproval of my choice of words and then try to bury me in the dirt with your "intelligent" choosing of words.You will never know who GOD is until you start to look.... and all the "intelligent" junk you been feed and believe in will continue to trip you up, every time you start your journey...Now I am sure that you will come back with a reply that tries to pick me apart... All I can say is have fun because all I know is when that day comes and we die.... One of us will be right and if you are a gambling man, which I believe you are, due to this being a poker forum.... I prefer my odds over yours... I have nothing to lose.... you my friend, have everything to lose....Hee! I wonder how many of your fellow believers will join you in saying that intelligence is a hindrance to faith. I actually happen to agree with it, although I usually point it out in the converse, which is to say that a lack of intelligence is a hindrance to the abandonment of a superstition-based worldview.I actually love this post - every word of it. It's like Religion in a nutshell. "Abandon your silly concepts of intelligence and rationality and join our club instead! It's better over here, we promise! We have nothing testable, nothing solid, and any time anyone challenges us on these things we just project all of our failings right back onto them, hoping people will actually buy the argument that failing to believe in something for which there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever still constitutes some kind of 'faith'. That failing, we still have the threat (conveniently unverifiable) that bad things will happen to you after you die if you don't join our little club, so you might as well join up, just in case!"Love it. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 what i find ironic is that you have come in with a lot of unsupported views. Every view I lay down has biblical support for it I would lend more credence to doodles on tissue paper. thats the problem.I am an agnostic who pays sparse attention to this forum because I believe in God and those who are religious think they have a monopoly on him. They dont. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 I am an agnostic who pays sparse attention to this forum because I believe in Godthat hurt my brain Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 that hurt my brainwhy? as far as I know agnostic means you believe in god but have no religion. if I am wrong about that please correct me..... Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 why? as far as I know agnostic means you believe in god but have no religion. if I am wrong about that please correct me.....Main Entry: ag·nos·tic 1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Oh dear. Please don't tell me you just threw in Pascal's Wager.I see little hope for this one.Hahahahha I thought the same exact thing.. I thought "Oh god.. Pascal's Wager" and literally shuddered with embarrassment for this guy. Reminds me of something that happened in church camp ( I was raised Baptist, of all god awful things to be raised) and while we didn't go to church much, I did go to church camp every year. The one I went to wasn't as sinister as the one you see in Jesus Camp, but it's still the basic premise.. IE pull kids out of their normal life, isolate them with believers, exercise them to the point of exhaustion, then have them sing till they are almost out of breath, then tell them heart wrenching, fearful stories about hell and damnation and about there being but one solution and viola, you have the perfect indocternation. Anywho, our camp would get councilors who were students from the University of Souix falls, a baptist bible college, who were paid by the college basically to go across the country to church camps and be councilors in order to recruit for them. So one of these councilors in defending belief in God, talked about a concept he learned in college called "Occams's razor "... and he said that on one hand you can believe in god, and on the other you can't. If you believe in god and are right, you go to heaven. If you believe in god and are wrong, nothing happens. How ever, if you disbelieve in god, and are right, nothing happens, but if you are wrong, you go to hell.. therefore, doesn't it make much more sense just to believe in god. This seemed like a powerful argument for me at the time, as like 13 year old. As I got older, I heard the term "Occam's razor come up.. in like science classes and learned what it really meant, which is pretty much the opposite of a defense of religion (IE the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible). It wasn't till years after that that I heard the term Pascal's gambit was the name of the idea that inadequacy educated councilor was trying to come up wiht, and I had a huge laugh. The idea still makes me smile.It's the type of anti-intellectualism that Big Stack spouts off that finally drove me from being religious and into the cold arms of atheism. I'm sorry, but if your basic argument for me to join your cult is that I need to suspend reason and logic, and you use fear to do it, you're simply barking up the wrong tree with me. I'm not 13 any more, I've grown up, and fictional stories about eternal damnation and boggie men don't scare me anymore. You're going to have to offer more in the way of proof and less in the way of scare tactics and crack pot philosophy before I become a true believer. I actually would love to see proof. The idea that when I die I'm going to be obliterated is a rather disturbing thought, and life after death would be fcking fantastic. But the fact that it would be wonderful to live after you die doesn't make it true, and I need proof before I change the way I live. Xian's all the time say " your beliefs are faith too. You need to prove to me god doesn't exsist" WHy? Why do I need to prove anything to you at all? I care fuk all about what you believe, as long as it doesn't infringe on me. Atheism doesn't come along with a book that says " Go out and harrass everyone alive into converting to atheism", unlike evangelical xianity. As part of it's core mission it's supposed to go out, and convert the world. That's your goal, not mine. IF you want to "save my soul" that prove god exists. Prove Jesus lived, that he was God's only begotten son, and that whom ever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life. If you can PROVE that and I mean prove, not make emotional pleas, not use scare tactics, not say "the bible says so", but use actual PROOF, then I'll be in church this sunday. Till then, I too will put Xianity up there with Jainism, astrology and tea leaf reading as superstitious nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites
bigstack1980 0 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Hahahahha I thought the same exact thing.. I thought "Oh god.. Pascal's Wager" and literally shuddered with embarrassment for this guy. Reminds me of something that happened in church camp ( I was raised Baptist, of all god awful things to be raised) and while we didn't go to church much, I did go to church camp every year. The one I went to wasn't as sinister as the one you see in Jesus Camp, but it's still the basic premise.. IE pull kids out of their normal life, isolate them with believers, exercise them to the point of exhaustion, then have them sing till they are almost out of breath, then tell them heart wrenching, fearful stories about hell and damnation and about there being but one solution and viola, you have the perfect indocternation. Anywho, our camp would get councilors who were students from the University of Souix falls, a baptist bible college, who were paid by the college basically to go across the country to church camps and be councilors in order to recruit for them. So one of these councilors in defending belief in God, talked about a concept he learned in college called "Occams's razor "... and he said that on one hand you can believe in god, and on the other you can't. If you believe in god and are right, you go to heaven. If you believe in god and are wrong, nothing happens. How ever, if you disbelieve in god, and are right, nothing happens, but if you are wrong, you go to hell.. therefore, doesn't it make much more sense just to believe in god. This seemed like a powerful argument for me at the time, as like 13 year old. As I got older, I heard the term "Occam's razor come up.. in like science classes and learned what it really meant, which is pretty much the opposite of a defense of religion (IE the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible). It wasn't till years after that that I heard the term Pascal's gambit was the name of the idea that inadequacy educated councilor was trying to come up wiht, and I had a huge laugh. The idea still makes me smile.It's the type of anti-intellectualism that Big Stack spouts off that finally drove me from being religious and into the cold arms of atheism. I'm sorry, but if your basic argument for me to join your cult is that I need to suspend reason and logic, and you use fear to do it, you're simply barking up the wrong tree with me. I'm not 13 any more, I've grown up, and fictional stories about eternal damnation and boggie men don't scare me anymore. You're going to have to offer more in the way of proof and less in the way of scare tactics and crack pot philosophy before I become a true believer. I actually would love to see proof. The idea that when I die I'm going to be obliterated is a rather disturbing thought, and life after death would be fcking fantastic. But the fact that it would be wonderful to live after you die doesn't make it true, and I need proof before I change the way I live. Xian's all the time say " your beliefs are faith too. You need to prove to me god doesn't exsist" WHy? Why do I need to prove anything to you at all? I care fuk all about what you believe, as long as it doesn't infringe on me. Atheism doesn't come along with a book that says " Go out and harrass everyone alive into converting to atheism", unlike evangelical xianity. As part of it's core mission it's supposed to go out, and convert the world. That's your goal, not mine. IF you want to "save my soul" that prove god exists. Prove Jesus lived, that he was God's only begotten son, and that whom ever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life. If you can PROVE that and I mean prove, not make emotional pleas, not use scare tactics, not say "the bible says so", but use actual PROOF, then I'll be in church this sunday. Till then, I too will put Xianity up there with Jainism, astrology and tea leaf reading as superstitious nonsense.What exactly do you think you guys do when you come to a RELIGION part of a website just to tell people how dumb their beliefs are, because you have no proof... What are you doing then, if not that? To me, all your writing lost all credibility due to that last part of your long statement... Why Lie?As for the other post that was meant to tear me down... I would rather it be by a person that does not go lurking around to take other's belief and rip them apart to show that a GOD doesn’t exist, because this is your way to project your belief, you lose all credibility with me. You can sum up all you want the words that I used to others and try to dog me for saying those purposeful words but im not ( was not ) trying to install fear, that is just how I truly feel. Does what I feel make it right in the eyes of those whom want “their type” of proof... Of course not... never was meant to be....I will not carry this out any longer because no matter what I say you always will have a rebuttal because you thrive on turning someone’s beliefs into mush.. To make you feel and project yourself better to others, when in all honestly shows the complete opposite.. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 So, I'll just go ahead and mark you down for "No proof" then. What exactly do you think you guys do when you come to a RELIGION part of a website just to tell people how dumb their beliefs are, because you have no proof...I know that's alot to ask for and all.. requiring EVIDENCE for belief. What do I think I am doing? Mocking the ignorant is it's own reward, it doesn't need a hidden agenda. What are you doing then, if not that? To me, all your writing lost all credibility due to that last part of your long statement... Why Lie?The fact I don't have any "Credibility" with a man that would use pascal's gambit as a defense of religion doesn't exactly keep me up at night The reason I come into religious forums is for me, not for you. I can assure you, I'm not looking for converts. I like to argue about issues immensely, not just religious ones. The reason I like to argue is it puts what I am and what I believe to the test. If some one comes up with a better argument for something or against something, then it challenges me and forces me to re-evaluate what I believe. As I said before, it's your, not my, belief system that requires conversion, and personally I think you're doing a pizz poor job of selling your product. I'm sure you'd prefer the religion forum to be a place for you and the other xians to swap "chicken soup for the soul" stories, sorry to rain on your parade and dare to suggest you offer proof to back up what you believe. As for the other post that was meant to tear me down... I would rather it be by a person that does not go lurking around to take other's belief and rip them apart to show that a GOD doesn’t exist, because this is your way to project your belief, you lose all credibility with me. You can sum up all you want the words that I used to others and try to dog me for saying those purposeful words but im not ( was not ) trying to install fear, that is just how I truly feel. Does what I feel make it right in the eyes of those whom want “their type” of proof... Of course not... never was meant to be....This paragraph is almost literally nonsensical. I don't know what "their type" of proof means, but I would settle for "any kind of objective evidence whatso ever"I will not carry this out any longer because no matter what I say you always will have a rebuttal because you thrive on turning someone’s beliefs into mush.. To make you feel and project yourself better to others, when in all honestly shows the complete opposite..Look how defense you get when we suggest you offer proof.. you just put your head in the sand, and whine about how everyone is picking on your and tearing you down and meanwhile offer NO PROOF WHATSO EVER. It is absolutely not true that "no matter what I say you will always have a rebuttal" If you offered legitimate evidence of a higher power, of Jesus, of the holy spirit, then what could we possibly say? But of course, you have no such evidence. Listen, if you've had a personal religious experience with god, a still small voice, a what ever crazy thing that has tricked you into thinking there is a personal jesus, congrats, more power to you. But don't act surprised when others burden of proof is a little higher than " because I feel it's true". Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Main Entry: ag·nos·tic 1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a godlearn something new all the time. I have been a bit mis-informed. That is close to what I thought agnosticism was.For the record, I believe in God but not any form of religion. Whatever that makes me thats what I am. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 learn something new all the time. I have been a bit mis-informed. That is close to what I thought agnosticism was.For the record, I believe in God but not any form of religion. Whatever that makes me thats what I am.I'd go with a "theist" or possibly a Deist, depending on the level of power and influence you think the god or gods have over our lives.. Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Let me be clear right off the bat, I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am curious why so many of you who are agnostic or atheists frequent the religion forum? It seems to me that if you aren’t into religion you wouldn’t have any interest in what’s going on in here. I for one could care less about hockey. Most sports I am fanatical about, but I think hockey sucks, and I can’t think of any reason to check out the hockey forum. Some of you are bitter, some think you’re smarter than you are and think here is a place to show it, and some just want to argue and be adversarial. But for those that don’t fit any of the previous categories whats your reason?I don't believe in God, I abhor organized religion of all forms, but I love hockey. Coincidence? Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 This thread turned me from a hard agnostic to a soft atheist. That's why I use this forum, to examine my beliefs. Just think, when I first came here I was Catholic, lol. P.S. Logic pwns religion Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 This thread turned me from a hard agnostic to a soft atheist. That's why I use this forum, to examine my beliefs. Just think, when I first came here I was Catholic, lol. P.S. Logic pwns religionLOL Link to post Share on other sites
renaedawn 1 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Mocking the ignorant is its own reward, it doesn't need a hidden agenda.Congratulations. Now that I've fixed the grammar error (it's is it is, not possessive - not that you care) it's going in my sig. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Congratulations. Now that I've fixed the grammar error (it's is it is, not possessive - not that you care) it's going in my sig.aw.. I'm blushing now Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Congratulations. Now that I've fixed the grammar error (it's is it is, not possessive - not that you care) it's going in my sig.As long as we're being picky, 'grammar' is a noun, not an adjective as you use it. The more correct word is 'grammatical'. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 As long as we're being picky, 'grammar' is a noun, not an adjective as you use it. The more correct word is 'grammatical'.OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 Link to post Share on other sites
renaedawn 1 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 As long as we're being picky, 'grammar' is a noun, not an adjective as you use it. The more correct word is 'grammatical'.Shuddup. You are not going in my sig. Link to post Share on other sites
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