Judas Iscariot

[72offfsuit 0]

I know the word Judas seems to have the connation of "traitor" but the more I have studied him the more confused I get. For Instance.1. Many Christians believe that Judas was the first person ever sent to hell (or one of the first). Albeit some Christians(ex: Roman Catholics) refuse to take a stand on the issue of whether Judas is in heaven or Hell.2. Why doesn't Jesus’ plea "Father forgive them, they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34) apply to Judas?3. Most importantly, If Jesus (God) knew that Judas was going to betray him, then Judas was predestined to do so and had no free will over his actions. If Judas had no free will over his actions then he can not be held accountable for his actions.3. B. Jesus suffered a terrible death but it only lasted hours(anyone know exact time?) and if Judas is sent to hell for eternity isn’t he suffering far more than Jesus? Since Judas cannot be held accountable for his actions because he was predestined to do them then he has suffered far more than Christ for saving humanity.I know this is muddy, maybe someone can explain it better.Any thoughts on this? I know Aquinas took a long time to try to explain it but I personally feel his arguments have major flaws.

[timwakefield 68]

I know that the controversial movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" had a really interesting take on it. SPOILER ALERT!!!! (even though the film is like 10 years old)Jesus basically asks Judas to betray him, knowing his own destiny is to die on the cross. Then, on the cross, the Devil (in disguise) offers to ease his suffering. Jesus accepts, and flash forward to Jesus as an old man, living with Mary Magdalene. Judas and some other disciples find him, and Judas says things like 'How could you do this to us? You have betrayed us and betrayed God.' Jesus then realizes that it had been the devil helping him....flash all the way back to Jesus on the cross, where he this time dies. Sorry if that's off-topic, but I thought it was really interesting.

[crowTrobot 2]

Any thoughts on this?

judas became a buddhist and was reincarnated as a reality show contestant

I know that the controversial movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" had a really interesting take on it. SPOILER ALERT!!!! (even though the film is like 10 years old)Jesus basically asks Judas to betray him, knowing his own destiny is to die on the cross. Then, on the cross, the Devil (in disguise) offers to ease his suffering. Jesus accepts, and flash forward to Jesus as an old man, living with Mary Magdalene. Judas and some other disciples find him, and Judas says things like 'How could you do this to us? You have betrayed us and betrayed God.' Jesus then realizes that it had been the devil helping him....flash all the way back to Jesus on the cross, where he this time dies. Sorry if that's off-topic, but I thought it was really interesting.

so which movie should i believe - last temptation or da vinci code?

[timwakefield 68]

so which movie should i believe - last temptation or da vinci code?

Haha, I wasn't saying you should believe it. But it is an interesting take on the story, that Jesus asks Judas to betray him. Probably both movies are pretty accurate.(sw)

[Mattnxtc 0]

Haha, I wasn't saying you should believe it. But it is an interesting take on the story, that Jesus asks Judas to betray him. Probably both movies are pretty accurate.(sw)

Hehe...both movies are based off of text written around the 2nd and third century. Gospel of Judas is the one that the movie would be based off of. Da Vinci Code is based on several others....All are part of the Gnostic belief which is quite an interesting belief depending on how you look at them. Some say Jesus was to human to be God, others say He was too God to be human. Both are nonsense though. The book of Judas wasnt even written by Judas but much later on. The others were not recognized b/c it was clear they werent written by the people it was attributed to.

[timwakefield 68]

Both are nonsense though. The book of Judas wasnt even written by Judas but much later on. The others were not recognized b/c it was clear they werent written by the people it was attributed to.

Oh I know both are nonsense. That's what the (sw) was for.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Oh I know both are nonsense. That's what the (sw) was for.

I know....just wanted to put a little bit of info in for everybody

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

no he is a traitor, if God wanted the new "gospel of judas" to be known, he would have given it to us in the Bible. all i need to know is in the Bible. i dont like believing other things. if its in the Bible its ok

[fckthis 0]

Cu, gotta admit, most ignorant comment ive heard.

[FatBurger 0]

1. I'm assuming you're looking for opinions on whether or not he's in hell? Personally, that's between him and God, and whether he is or not changes nothing about my own life. I think it's really an unanswerable question.2. Jesus could have been referring to the entire world, or only the Roman soldiers who performed the actual crucifiction. It's impossible to know. I guess for me this question is answered the same way as the first one.3. Ah, the knowlege vs. destiny debate. Let's look at it in poker terms (not an original analogy, I know). If I can see your hole cards, and you have a straight flush, but I have a higher straight flush, then I can go all in, knowing you'll call. Does my knowlege predetermine the outcome? You would go all in regardless of whether I knew you were going to or not.Omniscience doesn't determine destiny, our choices are still our own.3. B. This is a difficult one, and a very interesting question to ponder. On the surface, I tend to agree. An eternity suffering is always greater than a finite time of suffering. Any real number will always be less than infinite, no matter how big a number it is. Now look at it from a different perspective. Jesus did no wrong, yet took on ALL the world's sin, and was sent to hell. Imagine being God yourself (ignoring the Trinity debate for now), yet being cut off from God and sent to hell. On top of that, you have the guilt of a million sins. Yet all the time, you've done nothing wrong.So contrast that to Judas. Not the most despicable creature ever, but all the same he betrayed Jesus, among any other sins we don't know of.So in my mind, it's a matter of an undeserved bad fate, versus a deserved worse fate. (Based on your answer to #3 of course)

[Shocktastik 0]

2. Why doesn't Jesus’ plea "Father forgive them, they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34) apply to Judas?

It wouldn't apply to someone who, as an apostle, did know exactly what he was doing. Whether or not Jesus asked him to do it, we can't ever know in this life, same with whether or not he's in hell or can be forgiven, that's between him and God.

no he is a traitor, if God wanted the new "gospel of judas" to be known, he would have given it to us in the Bible. all i need to know is in the Bible. i dont like believing other things. if its in the Bible its ok

What is in the Bible is really rather arbitrary, there were several texts being widely used at the time that weren't included in the Bible, as well as some that weren't circulated very widely that WERE included. I cannot comment on the authenticity or the spiritual correctness of "The Gospel of Judas," but to say you accept what is in the Bible and nothing else is very ignorant.

[mtdesmoines 3]

2. Jesus could have been referring to the entire world, or only the Roman soldiers who performed the actual crucifiction. It's impossible to know. I guess for me this question is answered the same way as the first one.

First the comment above. If the entire human race "knows not what it does," what is the rationale for Hell? Second, I've always thought of Judas like the quote in *M*A*S*H* -- somethign like ... "being Judas, what else could he do?"

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

Cu, gotta admit, most ignorant comment ive heard.

why?if God had wanted us to know something he would have told us. not let us believe that he was evil then all of a sudden thousands of years later tell us that he is good? nup doesnt add up. im sticking to the Bible

[timwakefield 68]

why?if God had wanted us to know something he would have told us. not let us believe that he was evil then all of a sudden thousands of years later tell us that he is good? nup doesnt add up. im sticking to the Bible

The statement "all I need to know is in the Bible" is naive, to say the least.

[Mattnxtc 0]

What is in the Bible is really rather arbitrary, there were several texts being widely used at the time that weren't included in the Bible, as well as some that weren't circulated very widely that WERE included. I cannot comment on the authenticity or the spiritual correctness of "The Gospel of Judas," but to say you accept what is in the Bible and nothing else is very ignorant.

Its actually not ignorant at all. The books of the bible were there for several reasons. 1. The works were known authors and leaders2. They were the only ones considered to be divinely inspired from God3. The majority were never in questionThere are just a few that were ever doubted from an authenticity standpointAs for the Gospel of Judas, why would you expect it in there? They knew it wasnt written by Judas and it never alligned with anything that Jesus ever said publically. Many other books such as the Gospel of Peter also met this fate. If they couldnt verify who wrote it then it wasnt getting in. Its not a difficult concept

[speedz99 145]

why?if God had wanted us to know something he would have told us. not let us believe that he was evil then all of a sudden thousands of years later tell us that he is good? nup doesnt add up. im sticking to the Bible

You realize that the bible wasn't written by god, right? Good.So your argument about only believing thing that "god wants us to know" is pretty ignorant.I really hope you don't believe some of the stuff you write. You scare me.

[BuffDan 0]

Its actually not ignorant at all. The books of the bible were there for several reasons. 1. The works were known authors and leaders2. They were the only ones considered to be divinely inspired from God3. The majority were never in questionThere are just a few that were ever doubted from an authenticity standpointAs for the Gospel of Judas, why would you expect it in there? They knew it wasnt written by Judas and it never alligned with anything that Jesus ever said publically. Many other books such as the Gospel of Peter also met this fate. If they couldnt verify who wrote it then it wasnt getting in. Its not a difficult concept

Who are these "they" that you talk about, that decided what went in the bible and what didn't? How exactly do we know they were divenly inspired and nobody else was? What if I write something tommorow and say it was divinely inspired, can it then get into the bible? Groups of people made choices on what got in and what didn't, and once that happens, human error enters the equation, whether you like it or not. As long as the Bible was a book written by people (and I don't think one can argue that it was at least written by people, inspired by God or not) it will contain those peoples prejudice and views, and then it will contain the prejudices of the other people who have to make a judgement call as to what was inspired by God and what wasn't when they determine what gets in the Bible and what doesn't, so I don't see how any book made in this manner could possibly be free of error.

[loogie 115]

Didn't anyone see Dracula 2000?He became the most powerful vampire in history. Pretty obvious.