Aa Ep: Dead Man's Hand

[strategy 4]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: strategy is UTG with Ac, Ad. strategy raises, 5 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.Flop: (6.33 SB) 8h, 8s, 6h (3 players)BB checks, strategy bets, Button raises, BB folds, strategy calls.Turn: (5.16 BB) 9s (2 players)strategy checks, Button bets, strategy raises, Button calls.River: (9.16 BB) Kh (2 players)strategy checks, Button bets, strategy calls.Final Pot: 11.16 BBNo reads on the button. The flop and turn seem standard, but I wasn't sure on the riv. Your thoughts?

[Zach6668 513]

Do you have a specific reason for c/c the river?I think if you raise the turn you should lead the river.Also, another line would be to 3-bet the flop and either call down from a cap, or lead the turn and go from there. I do like your flop/turn line though. I just don't understand the river, so educate me - Zach

[strategy 4]

Do you have a specific reason for c/c the river?I think if you raise the turn you should lead the river.Also, another line would be to 3-bet the flop and either call down from a cap, or lead the turn and go from there. I do like your flop/turn line though. I just don't understand the river, so educate me - Zach

I felt like there wasn't much value in betting the river because my raise on the turn should have weeded most of the overcard draws out. This is 3/6, so maybe I am over-thinking things. Do you think I should have value-bet the river hoping to get calls from hands like QQ-55, or maybe even KsXs?

[TB17 0]

I think it's alright (I woulda 3 bet the flop and jam it), but a flat call on the flop is fine too if you know he will bet the turn. But you can't ever guarantee that someone is gonna bet, so unless you have a strong read on him, i 3 b et the flop.Also you have to b/c that river. What else besides a flush draw has you beat? A-8 doesn't usually cold call, and any boat would've 3 bet the turn for value. You beat many other hands, so bet and call/puke when he shows like Jh10h.

[Zach6668 513]

I felt like there wasn't much value in betting the river because my raise on the turn should have weeded most of the overcard draws out. This is 3/6, so maybe I am over-thinking things. Do you think I should have value-bet the river hoping to get calls from hands like QQ-55, or maybe even KsXs?

I just think he calls a ton more hands than he will bet with, that we beat.I missed that the flush came in. And actually, looking at the play again, it does look like he was playing a flush draw. But I think the concensus that we've reached before here was bet/call the river. I also think that the likelihood that he was on the FD decreased slightly when he bet the turn. Tons of pocket pairs play that flop the same way as well, even 6x.Just my opinion. I've played 3/6 a bit, and it's not exactly filled with the smartest, or best players, although some are out there.- Zach

[strategy 4]

I just think he calls a ton more hands than he will bet with, that we beat.I missed that the flush came in. And actually, looking at the play again, it does look like he was playing a flush draw. But I think the concensus that we've reached before here was bet/call the river. I also think that the likelihood that he was on the FD decreased slightly when he bet the turn. Tons of pocket pairs play that flop the same way as well, even 6x.Just my opinion. I've played 3/6 a bit, and it's not exactly filled with the smartest, or best players, although some are out there.- Zach

Reading over the responses, it's clear that bet/call is the right action on the riv. Thanks for the advice, guys. He turned up 77, and I'm thinking he probably would have paid off a bet despite the overcard and flush draw getting there.I'm showing 6BB/100 hands over about 2500 hands so far. Oh, how I wish this was sustainable.

[Actuary 3]

to me the river is read dependent.if he bets it for u 90% of the time, I c/c.I'm in the minority, apparently.

[Zach6668 513]

to me the river is read dependent.if he bets it for u 90% of the time, I c/c.I'm in the minority, apparently.

But there's only 3 of us who have commented, so far.I think the biggest thing I disagree with in your answer is that you will rarely find a villain who will bet the river 90% of the time when checked too, especially after we raise the turn. Most of the time they will take the free showdown, unless they improve to a hand that most likely beats us, ie the flush. However, I do think they will call with a ton more.- Zach

[strategy 4]

I think the biggest thing I disagree with in your answer is that you will rarely find a villain who will bet the river 90% of the time when checked too, especially after we raise the turn. Most of the time they will take the free showdown, unless they improve to a hand that most likely beats us, ie the flush. However, I do think they will call with a ton more.

One thing I forgot to mention. I checked the turn fully expecting him to bet because I played a TON of 2/4 on Stars before I started back up at Party. On Stars, I could give you the names of at least 5 or 6 regulars in the 2/4 games that will bet the turn and river without fail in this situation if checked to on the turn and river. It's amazing what kinds of differences I am seeing between Party and Stars players.However, I had seen no evidence of this type of aggression with this particular opponent. I think I should have bet.

[Egarim 0]

I think you should always lead this river here. There are too many hands that he will call with that you have beat. He will prob call with any pocket pair or k. If he had an 8 he would've 3bet the turn. So, only thing that has you beat is a flush. Basically, if you are playing well and know your opponent wont raise the river without the flush then you can safely bet/fold the river which is FAR better than c/c on the river. If not, I still think bet/calling the river is still the best play since he will call you down with worse hands the majority of the time.

[Abbaddabba 0]

if he bets it for u 90% of the time, I c/c.I'm in the minority, apparently.

If you think he bets the river 90% of the time, you should check/raise, not check/call.... because it means he's betting with tons of stuff that you have beat.For the vast majority of players, you're going to see them checking behind with hands that they would call a bet with.The line you took is fine with me. The only problem i can see is that when a scare card comes on the turn and you checkraise (a Q or K for instance) he may fold a hand like 10 10, whereas he would have called your flop 3bet and called you down the whole way afterwards.

[Actuary 3]

If you think he bets the river 90% of the time, you should check/raise, not check/call.

good point.90%, a litte hyperbole, perhaps.Still, I would have trouble c/r a flush board

[looshle 6]

C/c here. Since he bet the turn he probably has something to go with his flush draw, so theres a chance he might even bet the river if checked to, meaning you wont miss a bet. It's hard to bet here, I don't because it can trap you in for 2 bets when you couldve seen it for free, or for one bet, which is what you should want to put it on the river anyways.

[Abbaddabba 0]

If you "could've seen it for free", you always have the best hand.Almost nobody checks behind with a hand that beats us. But they often will with a lot of hands that we beat.Which is why we have to bet.

[Actuary 3]

If you "could've seen it for free", you always have the best hand.Almost nobody checks behind with a hand that beats us. But they often will with a lot of hands that we beat.Which is why we have to bet.

so you're bet/folding, of course.

[Abbaddabba 0]

No.Worse hands raise more than 1/12 times.Bet/call.

[Actuary 3]

No.Worse hands raise more than 1/12 times.Bet/call.

I think the combinnation of better hands raising + worse hands folding + worse hands betting if checked to vs Worse hands checking behind is close. Again, I'd check if villain is not passive.Passive, I bet.

[The Nuts 0]

I cap the betting preflop (or bet/raise as much as I can). The only feasible hand you're a major dog to is a set postflop. I'd try to push hard with the betting postflop. If you're consistently getting raised, then you may have to pin your opponent on a set and you may have to consider folding depending upon your oppoent.

[Zach6668 513]

I cap the betting preflop (or bet/raise as much as I can). The only feasible hand you're a major dog to is a set postflop. I'd try to push hard with the betting postflop. If you're consistently getting raised, then you may have to pin your opponent on a set and you may have to consider folding depending upon your oppoent.

I think we have to call down almost every time. If the villain is raising, it could be TP, two pair, etc, and we could have hidden outs. I'm really not folding AA unless there's a flush or straight on board and there's severe action before me.- Zach

[The Nuts 0]

I suppose so.The unknown factor is the opponent. If he's a total rock, then I could lay it down if I'm highly certain that he has the eight. In most cases, I'd call it down. If there was a lot of preflop raising and calling, I would be able to bet more aggressively postflop because I could assume that villain missed the flop and has at best an overpair like KK or QQ, which of course would be dominated by the pocket aces.

[Zach6668 513]

I suppose so.The unknown factor is the opponent. If he's a total rock, then I could lay it down if I'm highly certain that he has the eight. In most cases, I'd call it down. If there was a lot of preflop raising and calling, I would be able to bet more aggressively postflop because I could assume that villain missed the flop and has at best an overpair like KK or QQ, which of course would be dominated by the pocket aces.

Of course, a rock or a mouse, it's a possibly lay down.Absent reads, I'm almost always seeing a SD.- Zach