George W Bush Is Holding Me Hostage

[Farnan 0]

the phones....i'll give you.holding people w/o lawyers? they are POWs not american citizens. and chong broke a law or statute. should we not arrest people that break laws?

Nice way to gloss over the torture comment. It is also interesting that the adminitration considers most of them "enemy combatants" not POWs. This is so they don't have to abide by those pesky Geneva Conventions. Yes, they do hold people w/o lawyers--and to do so, they just classify them in a way that they think allows them to ignore the rights and freedoms we're trying to spread.As far as Chong getting arrested--no one considers (or should consider) this directly GWB's fault. But the FBI's concentration on drugs, porn, etc. instead of terrorist activities is a waste of time and resources---and IS the product of GWB's administration.

[ajs510 122]

Gettin pretty old.

Gettin was two weeks ago. There are forums dedicated to political arguing, thankfully this isn't one of them and most of us like it that way.

[Farnan 0]

Gettin was two weeks ago. There are forums dedicated to political arguing, thankfully this isn't one of them and most of us like it that way.

Suggestion: If you don't like political posts in a GENERAL, OFF-TOPIC forum, maybe you shouldn't open, read and post in them.

[myenemy 0]

Funny how I can never escape the feeling that liberal ranting is the product of lazy, bored Americans who are upset because capitalism has made them lazy and bored Americans.

[ajs510 122]

Suggestion: If you don't like political posts in a GENERAL, OFF-TOPIC forum, maybe you shouldn't open, read and post in them.

Better suggestion. Make Political Posts and Respond to Political threads in a Political Forum. Not a Poker Forum where no one else wants to hear your_shit.

[keith crime 8]

people who are motivated cause much of the grief on this earth - if george bush and richard ashcroft were in a seedy motel smoking weed and watching jerry springer we'd all be much better off

[alf13 0]

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.The sure fire way to see if someone is full of **** politically is if they complain about the patriot act.9 times out of 10...they never read it...or just heard someone complain about it...and they parrot what they heard.10 times out of 10....they are usually a snivelling liberal moron.

[Jordan 1]

the first thing george bush did when he won the 2000 election was appoint john ashcroft which was odd because the election was decided by what 7 votesand ashcroft was so right wing Jerry Falwell thinks he needs to loosen upashcroft then covered up the statues breasts in front of his building and then went after Tommy Chong! obviously a danger to us allyes George Bush did this - and no i didnt write anyone - and yes that makes me a bad american because the process is ****ed and the government lies to you every day and sends you to their schools to learn about George Washington and be docile as they **** you in the *** to keep themselves and their friends rich

Keith. You sound like you dislike America.Why don't you be like a real hippy then and move outta the country? When I lived in Guatemala I found plenty of real hippies there they left the USA and now live down there.I respect them cause they actually got out of the country. I may not agree completely, or disagree completely with their beliefs, but at least they put their money where their mouth is.As for me. I didn't vote in the last election cause I don't really think I was educated to vote either way and feel OK about it, so I didn't...so I guess I'm on the fence with certain political things.I just kinda laugh when I walk around and see people (seriously out on the street) that just seem to "hate" America. Yet they still live here. There are other places to live. I just want to tell all of them, "If you really hate America this much, go find somewhere else to live."I guess some of them may really want to make a change and have the best for America at their heart, but I don't know who those are. It's hard to tell the difference.Again, I'm uneducated politically. Does it show?I just liked the hippies in GUA though. LOL. Except they stank. :x- Jordan

[phlegm 6]

Keith. You sound like you dislike America.Why don't you be like a real hippy then and move outta the country? When I lived in Guatemala I found plenty of real hippies there they left the USA and now live down there.I respect them cause they actually got out of the country. I may not agree completely, or disagree completely with their beliefs, but at least they put their money where their mouth is.As for me. I didn't vote in the last election cause I don't really think I was educated to vote either way and feel OK about it, so I didn't...so I guess I'm on the fence with certain political things.I just kinda laugh when I walk around and see people (seriously out on the street) that just seem to "hate" America. Yet they still live here. There are other places to live. I just want to tell all of them, "If you really hate America this much, go find somewhere else to live."I guess some of them may really want to make a change and have the best for America at their heart, but I don't know who those are. It's hard to tell the difference.Again, I'm uneducated politically. Does it show?I just liked the hippies in GUA though. LOL. Except they stank. :x- Jordan

What he said. And please hurry.

[keith crime 8]

well personally half the people here are cool and half are evil supermotivated meddlers - why should i have to leave the country of my birth because they can't live and let liveand Alf educate me on how the patriot act has made my life better - and hell i admit it i've never read it - which i have in common with probably 90% of the people who voted on ittell me why antonin scalia accepted a first amendment award and then banned the press from covering his speech tell me why the FCC has upped fines against talent while corporations get to buy each other up at will under their very nodding eyestell me why bush had his hands all over enron - dude was sending those guys video taped christmas messages

[turd ferguson 1]

well personally half the people here are cool and half are evil supermotivated meddlers - why should i have to leave the country of my birth because they can't live and let live

And the other half won't stop bitching about it. Go away please.

[Farnan 0]

Funny how I can never escape the feeling that liberal ranting is the product of lazy, bored Americans who are upset because capitalism has made them lazy and bored Americans.

Yeah, hilarious. It is also funny how i can never escape the realization that conservatives are amazingly skilled at mischaracterizing an entire world-view. Think i'm lazy or bored? I bet you're an extremely successful individual who has mastered the ins and outs of capitalism to talk down to us like that. Can you please write a book so that you can enlighten us with your wisdom?

Better suggestion. Make Political Posts and Respond to Political threads in a Political Forum. Not a Poker Forum where no one else wants to hear your_shit.

Nah, but i appreciate the suggestion. Thanks for stopping by.

[chrozzo 19]

i was going to read through and reply in this thread again, but I slipped on the testosterone when i entered and hurt my head, so im going to lie down instead

[keith crime 8]

my thinking is if dudes in religion can tell me i'm going to hell over there i can whine about that clueless puppet of evil over herethey are both equally poker related - except sadly george W bush holds all the cards

[Farnan 0]

Keith. You sound like you dislike America.Why don't you be like a real hippy then and move outta the country? When I lived in Guatemala I found plenty of real hippies there they left the USA and now live down there.I respect them cause they actually got out of the country. I may not agree completely, or disagree completely with their beliefs, but at least they put their money where their mouth is. Or maybe he doesn't hate America but thinks there are some serious problems that people need to take notice of and change. Why the hell should someone completely give up on their own country and leave? I personlly love this country. I think there are a lot of things that it does that i despise. That doesn't mean i should leave. This is NOT black and white, with us or against us BULL$HIT our politicians use to divide us. There are real issues in this country that NEED to be discussed and debated. That is what a democracy is all about, right?As for me. I didn't vote in the last election cause I don't really think I was educated to vote either way and feel OK about it, so I didn't...so I guess I'm on the fence with certain political things. Well, i hope the next time around you take the time to get informed and vote. I don't understand how people can argue that we should bomb another country into a democracy when they themselves don't participate in the one they live in.I just kinda laugh when I walk around and see people (seriously out on the street) that just seem to "hate" America. Yet they still live here. There are other places to live. I just want to tell all of them, "If you really hate America this much, go find somewhere else to live." And it makes me want to scream when mere disagreement and disgust for current politics, governmental actions and inactions is viewed as hatred towards the entire country. Ever have a friend or parent who did something horrible? Did you HATE them for it? Not likely. Sort of the same thing. I certainly don't hate this country--but i do hate what it is doing sometimes. And it is insulting to hear people making the assertion that because i want things run differently, that i should leave this country.I guess some of them may really want to make a change and have the best for America at their heart, but I don't know who those are. It's hard to tell the difference.Let me give you a hint---most of them have the best interests for America at their heart. If they didn't speak up--then it is obvious that they care. I'm more concerned about those who keep their mouths shut and let this government get away with whatever it wants. It is THOSE people who dont' have the best interests for America at their heart. How someone who doesn't vote have the nerve to tell someone who is voicing their opinion to leave the country is beyond me.Again, I'm uneducated politically. Does it show? Yup. But then again, that can change.I just liked the hippies in GUA though. LOL. Except they stank. :x Most hippies stink.

[alf13 0]

and Alf educate me on how the patriot act has made my life better - and hell i admit it i've never read it - which i have in common with probably 90% of the people who voted on ittell me why bush had his hands all over enron - dude was sending those guys video taped christmas messages

Look Keith...I will respond to this ONCE. Just ONCE. This is a god damn poker forum and I come here to escape all this partisan bullshit.By admitting that you never read the patriot act...well...it kinda proves my point. The fact remains that the Patriot act was passed overwhelmingly this last time and was re-written by most if not all of it's critics in congress.As for enron....these are facts:The Clinton White House was the first to give sweatheart deals to Enron.Enron was nothing before the Clinton Administration. Enron's largest period of growth was during the Clinton Admin.The Bush Admin was the one to prosecute Enron when all the wrong doing occured during the Clinton admin.If you just knew the facts about things instead of just ranting about Bush this..or Bush that...you would realize how wrong...or how hypocritical Democratic critics of Bush over Enron are.The Clinton Admin...MADE Enron.

[Jordan 1]

I'm gonna add a little more.Something about your title bugs me. No one is holding you hostage.You're an American. You know how easy it is to travel? A Visa cost like nothing. A plane ticket, not that much. We can go anywhere we want (basically) on this Earth without being opposed.Not many other places are like that. Most actually don't let people just "leave".Here's a little small example. Cause I really don't know that much, just a personal experience.In Guatemala a lot of people try to get to America just to work. The $$ exchange is like 7.5:1. They come to America for like 3 months, work here, then go back home and multiply their money and support their family that way. Thing is, it's incredibly difficult, and expensive, for them to get a Visa and the many other things they need in order to leave their country.If I remember correctly it cost about 700-800Q ($100-$115USD) to simply apply. That's a **** load of money to them. They are a poor country. It would take them months just to save up and try to get the interview, which they aren't even guarenteeed of being selected to get a Visa.Me and my friend tried to put our spanish teacher through this program, but he got rejected. Why? No reason. Just cause.He told us when he was there this woman busted a nut cause she claimed this was her 7th or so time there and had been rejected every time.But Bush holds you hostage.Right.Now wheter you meant the topic literally or not isn't important. It shows that as much as you think you know, you just don't.I suggest leaving the country for a while. Seeing a new culture, new people, new everything, and then coming back.I'm not trying to sound like I know everything. I don't. Hell, as I said, I was only there for 3 months, but I feel like I learned a good deal in just that time.Good luck.- Jordan

Keith. You sound like you dislike America.Why don't you be like a real hippy then and move outta the country? When I lived in Guatemala I found plenty of real hippies there they left the USA and now live down there.I respect them cause they actually got out of the country. I may not agree completely, or disagree completely with their beliefs, but at least they put their money where their mouth is. Or maybe he doesn't hate America but thinks there are some serious problems that people need to take notice of and change. Why the hell should someone completely give up on their own country and leave? I personlly love this country. I think there are a lot of things that it does that i despise. That doesn't mean i should leave. This is NOT black and white, with us or against us BULL$HIT our politicians use to divide us. There are real issues in this country that NEED to be discussed and debated. That is what a democracy is all about, right?As for me. I didn't vote in the last election cause I don't really think I was educated to vote either way and feel OK about it, so I didn't...so I guess I'm on the fence with certain political things. Well, i hope the next time around you take the time to get informed and vote. I don't understand how people can argue that we should bomb another country into a democracy when they themselves don't participate in the one they live in.I just kinda laugh when I walk around and see people (seriously out on the street) that just seem to "hate" America. Yet they still live here. There are other places to live. I just want to tell all of them, "If you really hate America this much, go find somewhere else to live." And it makes me want to scream when mere disagreement and disgust for current politics, governmental actions and inactions is viewed as hatred towards the entire country. Ever have a friend or parent who did something horrible? Did you HATE them for it? Not likely. Sort of the same thing. I certainly don't hate this country--but i do hate what it is doing sometimes. And it is insulting to hear people making the assertion that because i want things run differently, that i should leave this country.I guess some of them may really want to make a change and have the best for America at their heart, but I don't know who those are. It's hard to tell the difference.Let me give you a hint---most of them have the best interests for America at their heart. If they didn't speak up--then it is obvious that they care. I'm more concerned about those who keep their mouths shut and let this government get away with whatever it wants. It is THOSE people who dont' have the best interests for America at their heart. How someone who doesn't vote have the nerve to tell someone who is voicing their opinion to leave the country is beyond me.Again, I'm uneducated politically. Does it show? Yup. But then again, that can change.I just liked the hippies in GUA though. LOL. Except they stank. :x Most hippies stink.

I don't think anyone should "leave" the country and not return. I don't think anyone should leave cause they don't like the current president or whatever. But I do think certain people that just hate our current situation would be better off outside the country. Not cause I dislike them, I don't.I don't know this guy and I don't know you. Maybe you both are really trying to actively change something. If so, great, don't leave. People complain all the time though and don't do ****. They should leave. What purpose do they serve just complaining? If they think they can find something better outside our borders, go for it. I really don't mean to come off as, "If you don't agree with everything our government does, LEAVE!". If so, sorry. I was just trying to offer an impartial view. Maybe I didn't completely, if so, oh well. I'm very thankful for what we have here, I guess I never really realised what that really was until I was outta the country for so long.good day.- Jordan

[ford14 0]

tell me why antonin scalia accepted a first amendment award and then banned the press from covering his speech

Dude, how you can come on here and rant and rave about things you know obviously NOTHING about is just mind blowing. That award was given to him the City Club of Cleveland. The City Club is a PRIVATE organization that requires members to pay dues and adhere to bylaws. It is NOT a strictly public institution, although any member of the public can choose to become a member if they so choose. Scalia regularly requests that there be no media at his appearances. That has absolutely, positively nothing to do with free speech as it is written in the U.S. Consititution, nor does it make him some sort of hypocrite.

tell me why the FCC has upped fines against talent while corporations get to buy each other up at will under their very nodding eyes.

How, exactly, does one relate to the other? The FCC has upped fines because of people repeatedly and purposefully breaking their laws. Howard Stern is certainly the most notorious for doing so. I happen to like Stern, but when he was on broadcast radio, he chose to break those regulations knowing full well he would be fined for them. Oh well, it's his choice. It has nothing to do with buy-outs and mergers between corporations, which happens to be covered by the SEC if they are publicly held companies.

tell me why bush had his hands all over enron - dude was sending those guys video taped christmas messages

So was Clinton. Enron donated copius amounts of money to both parties. Enron was busted under Bush's presidency. Don't you think if he and Kenny Lay were so buddy-buddy (especially considering your veiled insinuation that Bush either knew about the misdoings of Enron execs, or even had something to do with it) that he would have done everything he could have to not have them brought down publicly and charged with crimes? Do you posess any logic and/or reasoning skills at all? For Christ's sake, man, do some more independent research and quit wasting valuable time posting inane rants.

[alf13 0]

bin laden is nothing compared to bush...i cant wait for tha "christian" to burn in hell.

I am pretty sure that Vatche is kidding...but it never amazes me to see how many liberals think exactly like this.Of course...they are retards that deserve to be kicked in the nuts repeatedly.

[ford14 0]

Look Keith...I will respond to this ONCE. Just ONCE. This is a god damn poker forum and I come here to escape all this partisan bullshit.By admitting that you never read the patriot act...well...it kinda proves my point. The fact remains that the Patriot act was passed overwhelmingly this last time and was re-written by most if not all of it's critics in congress.As for enron....these are facts:The Clinton White House was the first to give sweatheart deals to Enron.Enron was nothing before the Clinton Administration. Enron's largest period of growth was during the Clinton Admin.The Bush Admin was the one to prosecute Enron when all the wrong doing occured during the Clinton admin.If you just knew the facts about things instead of just ranting about Bush this..or Bush that...you would realize how wrong...or how hypocritical Democratic critics of Bush over Enron are.The Clinton Admin...MADE Enron.

You beat me to it. NH, sir.

[ShakeZuma 586]

I am pretty sure that Vatche is kidding...but it never amazes me to see how many liberals think exactly like this.Of course...they are retards that deserve to be kicked in the nuts repeatedly.

no he wasn't kidding. I've seen him post stuff like this a lot before. But no, they don't deserve to be kicked in the nuts, they deserve a television, a newspaper subscription, and a brain with the capability of rational thought, because statements like "Bush is worse than Bin Laden" prove that all of the aforementioned things are lacking, namely the last.

[keith crime 8]

Actually dude i'm from cleveland i know all about it - i've been to the city club and it is always televised except for that pompous *** who apparently doesn't want people to know his viewsand alf - i'm willing to listen - i never said screw you guys i'm unwilling to listenif you don't want to hear about bush skip the bush thread - personally i find the microlimit strategy section much more annoying and i wouldn't be caught dead there :)peaceoh and the fcc's real responsibility is keeping the public airwaves accessible not monopolized by huge corporate interests - they crack down on lame djs to hide the fact that they aren't doing their supposedly real job

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

animate skeleton?

[ajs510 122]

Frosted Strawberry Pop-Tarts...mmmmmm

[Farnan 0]

By admitting that you never read the patriot act...well...it kinda proves my point. The fact remains that the Patriot act was passed overwhelmingly this last time and was re-written by most if not all of it's critics in congress.

Well, i have read the Patriot Act--well, at least substantial portions of it. Which is more than what i can say for those Congressmen who voted for it (the first time around--i hope they actually read it this time). I don't have a problem with most of the Patriot Act. Most parts are needed updates to our laws to bring the law up to date with current technology. Some parts, however, overstep constitutional boundaries. Some of the definitions are unbelievably vague. Some of the prohibitions cast such a large net that that it catches constitutionally protected activity.It is a balancing act when dealing with rights/privacy vs. security. And the only way we can strike that balance is to openly discuss this and without using ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately we have people on both side causing interference when anyone decides to discuss the issues.

I don't know this guy and I don't know you. Maybe you both are really trying to actively change something. If so, great, don't leave. People complain all the time though and don't do ****. They should leave. What purpose do they serve just complaining?

The purpose is to discuss these issues--the more people who discuss them, the more people will pay attention, the more people will become informed voters, the more people will be tempted to take active roles in local politics.Keith--glad to see another Clevelander around here... Even if you are a pinko-anti-american hippie commie.