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i feel alot of religion is a joke. i think everyone can believe what they want but why try and push it on other people. My biggest question is why should we have to pay someone to preach to us when we can read it in a book. Why do we have to give a certain percentage of our income to the ministries. I guess we all do what makes us feel better. I do beleive in god but i dont think i need the support of someone i have to pay to preach at me. i also believe that the church is for the weak minded people. i also believe that we shouldnt have to make a preacher, reverend, minister, or whatever to be able to earn more money than me. tell me the last time you have seen a preacher ask for money and acctually need it. only in the churches do they ask for money. from the poor people with low esteem that cant afford to give money anyway. so if you believe in god has he personally asked you for money. and why should my preacher drive a better car than me..

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i feel alot of religion is a joke. i think everyone can believe what they want but why try and push it on other people. My biggest question is why should we have to pay someone to preach to us when we can read it in a book. Why do we have to give a certain percentage of our income to the ministries. I guess we all do what makes us feel better. I do beleive in god but i dont think i need the support of someone i have to pay to preach at me. i also believe that the church is for the weak minded people. i also believe that we shouldnt have to make a preacher, reverend, minister, or whatever to be able to earn more money than me. tell me the last time you have seen a preacher ask for money and acctually need it. only in the churches do they ask for money. from the poor people with low esteem that cant afford to give money anyway. so if you believe in god has he personally asked you for money. and why should my preacher drive a better car than me..
I honestly dont know where to begin with this...If this is really his view...then wow...His lack of understanding of anything in this field is shocking...I always ask myself...Why do celebrities feel they need to speak up about issues that they know little about?
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I'm pretty sure ministers arent in the business for the money (cough Jesse Jackson cough).They actually believe what they're preaching, usually.

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I'm pretty sure ministers arent in the business for the money (cough Jesse Jackson cough).They actually believe what they're preaching, usually.
Hehe dont get me started on Jesse Jackson and "Reverand Al Sharpton"i doubt either has truly preached in a long long time. Both are in it for the money and its disgusting. Not that I am excluding the "mega churches" these days from this either...I dont understand why you need a congregation of 20,000 just to preach the gospel
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I believe in god but my beliefs are mine. i think i shouldnt have to pay for anything i can get for free in any old timers bar. i also feel that churchs are for the weak at heart and i can see how they need support. but for me i dont need it so i dont go. i also dont support any of the churches because no matter which one you go to they all say the samething.. they want you to believe the way they do and i dont believe in this.i feel we live in the land of the free so we all can chose as we please.

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Let's look at this from a different perspective. Why would you pay a poker player to tell you how to play poker (buy their books on how to be a better player)? Can't you just learn from your own experience? One reason for having a Pastor/Teacher is that they have the time to study the scripture and then share their insight with the people to whom they minister. We are always told not to take our Pastor's message at face value. It is our responsibility to "dig deeper" into the message that he shares with us. However this gives us a place to start.We are always better people if we can learn from the experiences of others, as well as from our own experience. We then try to help others by sharing what we have learned.When the Pastor talks about needing money in the church, that is what it is for -- the church ministry. The Pastor receives a salary from the church family -- he doesn't get the money that comes in the offering plate each Sunday; that is for the church operating expenses.While a few Pastor, Minister etc are paid a lot of money, the majority do not make more than the people in their congregation (and it is usually a lot less). However the Bible tells us that I Timothy 5:17-18 17 Church leaders who do their job well deserve to be paid twice as much, especially if they work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 It is just as the Scriptures say, "Don't muzzle an ox when you are using it to grind grain." You also know the saying, "Workers are worth their pay."Pastors are also there to give encouragement to people in their congregation, visit the sick, preform wedding ceremonies, funerals etc. They really don't "just work on Sunday". They are on call 24/7 when they minister to a small church family, such as the one where I am a member.

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Pastors are also there to give encouragement to people in their congregation, visit the sick, preform wedding ceremonies, funerals etc. They really don't "just work on Sunday". They are on call 24/7 when they minister to a small church family, such as the one where I am a member.
ok I understand the 24/7 but they get paid for that too. trust me they get more than you would ever know. my best friend is a preacher and his church is small on a good sunday he might get 75 people to show up. now saying that he lives in a 3 story house that he bought on 45 acres of land that cost 425k. he has two nice cars and a nice wife and kids.yes i am jealous cause he dont have to work as hard as i do to make money. but if you tell me that all that mony goes for upkeep and the needs for the church its straight up bullcrap. Every church ive been in has a building fund cup as soon as you walk in or somewhere located in the church. this money is for upkeep on the church. trust me when i say my friend is a good preacher but the people are just way to money giving. i mean its like we have to give something like 18% of our total income to the church. now lets look at this..for say average income is 30ky per family and there are 50 families. 1 family would give 5400 a year.. total of that is 270k for all the families. so lets just say half of that goes back to the church 135k. wow when have you ever made 135k in a year. hell i own my own buisness and ive never made that.. ohh and i didnt even count marriages and funerals.
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I'd like to know what church your friend preaches at, because I guarantee that is not the norm, and I don't even think it's right. I grew up in a church about that same size, and we never had a pastor make much more than $50k a year. That said, you don't tithe because you gotta pay the preacher, you tithe to give back to God a portion of what he has provided you. That money is used by the church for a variety of things. A portion of the money goes to pay the preacher's salary, some of it goes to pay building costs, bills, etc. Some money goes to help oversees missionaries cover their costs Also, my father has been a Deacon in the church for a long time, and there are plenty of poor people who come to the church asking for money. The church has paid people's utility bills, bought them food, helped them pay their rent, etc. Sadly, you often times have to actually pay the landlord, utility company directly, or go buy the groceries yourself, because often times the people are just trying to take advantage of the church to get cigarette and beer money.

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I'd like to know what church your friend preaches at, because I guarantee that is not the norm, and I don't even think it's right. I grew up in a church about that same size, and we never had a pastor make much more than $50k a year. That said, you don't tithe because you gotta pay the preacher, you tithe to give back to God a portion of what he has provided you. That money is used by the church for a variety of things. A portion of the money goes to pay the preacher's salary, some of it goes to pay building costs, bills, etc. Some money goes to help oversees missionaries cover their costs Also, my father has been a Deacon in the church for a long time, and there are plenty of poor people who come to the church asking for money. The church has paid people's utility bills, bought them food, helped them pay their rent, etc. Sadly, you often times have to actually pay the landlord, utility company directly, or go buy the groceries yourself, because often times the people are just trying to take advantage of the church to get cigarette and beer money.
i just talked to him about this.. he said according to certain people that takes the polls its between 15-20% of gross income not what you get aftertaxes. he didnt want me to talk about it. he said he averages about 60 people at his church on every occasion. he would not go into it to deep but he did say that they help the community alot. but one thing he did mention is the benefits they hold for "the church". im not sure how this works but he said all churches does this in some shape or form.i also think he said that he dont pay taxes like us regular folk do either but im not sure how he put it so i will leave that alone. i do know averages and numbers and they dont lie. the records in churches is for all to see i believe. if it is i will have more knowledge of this after this weekend is over. but you all being naive about how much money priests or preachers make is mind boggleing to me. i have never seen a poor minister, preist, or whatever.in all i think everyone is just a little stupid when it comes to the collection plate. i just dont understand i bust my *** and have nothing and the tell people that god said to give there money to them and bam they have no worries.. ok im done with this til monday...
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yes i agree with that but alot of what he says i agree with.. the main one people use religion as a crutch. that is the wrong thing to use it as. nevermind im not doing this right now. come in here monday and i will argrue my points.

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Hehe dont get me started on Jesse Jackson and "Reverand Al Sharpton"i doubt either has truly preached in a long long time. Both are in it for the money and its disgusting. Not that I am excluding the "mega churches" these days from this either...I dont understand why you need a congregation of 20,000 just to preach the gospel
You don't need a church of 20,000. But, it's not like they're being forced to go there. The "megachurches" are a perfect of example of church done right. Most of them started out with just a few members and grew to that size because there members wanted to bring more people to Christ. You make having a big church sound sinful. My church has 1500 people and growing, we started in 1993 with about 10. (1500 is a megachurch in my town) We're that big because we love people, and people come to my church because they know that.
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i feel alot of religion is a joke. i think everyone can believe what they want but why try and push it on other people. My biggest question is why should we have to pay someone to preach to us when we can read it in a book. Why do we have to give a certain percentage of our income to the ministries. I guess we all do what makes us feel better. I do beleive in god but i dont think i need the support of someone i have to pay to preach at me. i also believe that the church is for the weak minded people. i also believe that we shouldnt have to make a preacher, reverend, minister, or whatever to be able to earn more money than me. tell me the last time you have seen a preacher ask for money and acctually need it. only in the churches do they ask for money. from the poor people with low esteem that cant afford to give money anyway. so if you believe in god has he personally asked you for money. and why should my preacher drive a better car than me..
Actually, biblically it's unscriptual to pay a preacher, so he is on the right track a little. As for giving money, scriptually there is a collection, on the first day of the week, taken up for the needs of the saints.
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Let's look at this from a different perspective. Why would you pay a poker player to tell you how to play poker (buy their books on how to be a better player)? Can't you just learn from your own experience? One reason for having a Pastor/Teacher is that they have the time to study the scripture and then share their insight with the people to whom they minister. We are always told not to take our Pastor's message at face value. It is our responsibility to "dig deeper" into the message that he shares with us. However this gives us a place to start.We are always better people if we can learn from the experiences of others, as well as from our own experience. We then try to help others by sharing what we have learned.When the Pastor talks about needing money in the church, that is what it is for -- the church ministry. The Pastor receives a salary from the church family -- he doesn't get the money that comes in the offering plate each Sunday; that is for the church operating expenses.While a few Pastor, Minister etc are paid a lot of money, the majority do not make more than the people in their congregation (and it is usually a lot less). However the Bible tells us that I Timothy 5:17-18 17 Church leaders who do their job well deserve to be paid twice as much, especially if they work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 It is just as the Scriptures say, "Don't muzzle an ox when you are using it to grind grain." You also know the saying, "Workers are worth their pay."Pastors are also there to give encouragement to people in their congregation, visit the sick, preform wedding ceremonies, funerals etc. They really don't "just work on Sunday". They are on call 24/7 when they minister to a small church family, such as the one where I am a member.
1 Timothy 5-17 says nothing of the sort- it says to give them honor, not money. The muzzling the ox is a reference to deuteronomy, in which it's talking about honoring your brothers name if he dies- the whole scripture is speaking of the honour due an individual. It even says, the scripture sayeth, referencing deuteronomy, and it gives you the idea of what it is talking about,furthermore it says that the man who does not provide for his own home is worse than the infidel. Seems pretty clear to me.
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you guys have some good points here something to think about. have you ever seen a church go under for normal reasons? not curuptions, orcrap like that. or deaths. ok have you ever seen a bar go under for normal reasons? they are the only two things that will never go out of buisness unless they do something to mess it up.

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You don't need a church of 20,000. But, it's not like they're being forced to go there. The "megachurches" are a perfect of example of church done right. Most of them started out with just a few members and grew to that size because there members wanted to bring more people to Christ. You make having a big church sound sinful. My church has 1500 people and growing, we started in 1993 with about 10. (1500 is a megachurch in my town) We're that big because we love people, and people come to my church because they know that.
you also make it sound like a big church cannot be sinful. my former church in illinois started out with 100 members in the early 90's. by 1998, it had 600 memebers.they just moved their premises in 2004 to accomodate new growth. membership is now 1500. however, there is no gospel. the only thing that the pastor now preaches in politics, tithing, and church growth. that's it.there is no one on one with anyone. the only people that get the red carpet treatment is the pastor's family. he tells us to "go to small groups," which are non-existant now.members are now expected to bring at least two new people to church, and are supposed to "volunteer" there time in certain activities around the church. if you're feeling lukewarm, join an activity. don't expect counesling from the pastor.there is one assistant pastor that still actually seems to care, and will still counsel on a personal basis. however, he's been pretty much overshadowed and hardly no one knows to actually go to him anymore.i loved that church, when i moved up to indianapolis, i had become sickened by what i saw in the past two years.i know that isn't the norm, but it's definitely possible.and yes, the pastor drives 3 cars that are better/newer/flashier than mine.
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