Qk On The Button

[Syous 0]

Texas Hold'em $1-$2 (Real Money), #273,311,835 Table Kenitra, 22 Mar 2006 4:56 AM ET Seat 1: mieszko0 ($14 in chips) Seat 2: MrTiltMan ($32.50 in chips) Seat 3: samu12 ($81.70 in chips) Seat 4: putzi1 ($19.60 in chips) Seat 5: livers00 ($52.10 in chips) Seat 6: bpmac ($57.50 in chips) Seat 7: creative xxx ($14.55 in chips) Seat 9: Penzuk ($60.45 in chips) Seat 10: Syous ($102.20 in chips) I'm Holding JQ ANTES/BLINDSmieszko0 posts blind ($0.50), MrTiltMan posts blind ($1).PRE-FLOPsamu12 calls $1, putzi1 calls $1, livers00 folds, bpmac folds, creative xxx bets $2, Penzuk folds, Syous calls $2, mieszko0 folds, MrTiltMan folds, samu12 calls $1, putzi1 calls $1.FLOP [board cards QS,4D,10H ]samu12 checks, putzi1 checks, creative xxx checks, Syous bets $1, samu12 calls $1, putzi1 folds, creative xxx calls $1.TURN [board cards QS,4D,10H,5D ]samu12 checks, creative xxx bets $2, Syous bets $4, samu12 calls $4, creative xxx calls $2.RIVER [board cards QS,4D,10H,5D,AC ]samu12 checks, creative xxx bets $2, Syous calls $2, samu12 calls $2.

[Pancake407 0]

Fold preflop.

[ZenBrothers 0]

Purely based on this hand alone and its betting pattern, assuming that creative is a fairly straight player then I would put him on a str8 draw on the flop and an added Diamond draw on the turn and a made str8 on the river.BUT, I will call down to see...ZenBrothers...

[MasterLJ 0]

Cold calling 2 even with something like QJ is just bad. What are you beating here? What doesn't have you absolutely dominated?Just for illustrative purposes, if there is AQ or KQ, and KJ or AJ in the holdings of the other players, you are playing for the straight only and your pre-flop equity is < 5%.

[Actuary 3]

Syous,send me $2 next time you want to call a raise with QJ off suityou should be flogged

[thecamelot 0]

Fold preflop is right.On a side note, the topic title says KQ but the post says QJ. Which is it?But fold preflop.And give Actuary the $2, he SAP.

[Syous 0]

why is it a fold when you hold it on the button? I understand that people who raise will tend to have AQ or AK but my reasoning is that because I'm on the button, I get last action. So if he bets, then I can raise to see if he has tptk and if he checks, then i can assume my hand is good.is this -ev thinking?

[thecamelot 0]

Because the hand sucks against the types of hands that would be raised. QJ is likely dominated, and in this case, not suited.Some of that thinking is flawed, but I'll let others explain it. I have a hard time with words.

[Actuary 3]

you are vulnerable to....over card redrawshigher kickers, that don't always raiseRIO: Reverse implied odds: the good chance you are putting money in when way behind or barely ahead on the bigger betting streetsYou cannot make up post flop for 2 bets invested here. you will not end up getting paid off enough relative to all the times YOU ARE PAYING OFF A BETTER HAND WITHOUT KNOWING IT.QUIT DOING THINGS FOR INFO AT 1/2, IT HIGHLY UNRELIABLEI'll let you raise your QJ and bet it down all the way, while I call with KQ.Bad info, huh?Calling Raises with off suit mid broadway is a serious serious no no.Better to call with 78s.

but my reasoning is that because I'm on the button, I get last action. So if he bets, then I can raise to see if he has tptk and if he checks, then i can assume my hand is good.is this -ev thinking?

Huh?How are you getting last action?The Bettor will be to your immediate right on the flop, usually.

[Pancake407 0]

mid offsuit broadways are the biggest money makers in holdem..........When your opponents play them.

[Syous 0]

i'm on button, but I see what you guys are saying. Ty

[Zach6668 513]

QUIT DOING THINGS FOR INFO AT 1/2, IT HIGHLY UNRELIABLE

Raising for info is a joke. It's highly overrated. It's an enourmous spew.Raise because there is a good chance you have the best hand. Raise to protect your hand by offering people behind you terrible odds to call. Raise to build a pot with a huge draw. It's been a while since I've looked at SSHE, but I don't really think it mentions raising for info anywhere.OP, if you haven't, read SSHE.And fold preflop.- Zach

i'm on button, but I see what you guys are saying. Ty

So you're on the button?Have you read SSHE? It says to play extremely tight when there is a raise PF. I have problems calling QJo when it hasn't been raised PF.Anyways, position is huge, but it will not help you over come the numerous times that this happens:AQ, KQ vs QJ, board Q3957AA, KK, QQ, JJ vs QJ board J3859Basically, you are dominated by 90% of the raising hands. You will lose a lot of money with the second best hand.- Zach

[Actuary 3]

i'm on button, but I see what you guys are saying. Ty

What makes you think we don't know that?You will have others acting AFTER YOU on the flop if the preflop raiser opens the betting or raises on the flop... very likelyYw.

[doubleatrain 0]

What makes you think we don't know that?You will have others acting AFTER YOU on the flop if the preflop raiser opens the betting or raises on the flop... very likelyYw.

This is a very underrated point. Yes, having the button is good, but having position relative to where aggression is likely to come from is more important. Obviously you still have position on him, but you're likely to be sandwiched in between players with, at best, a marginal hand in a marginal situation.All said, don't call two cold with JQ. They're prettier cards than average, but they're not that great of a hand in that spot.

[Actuary 3]

I've been validated.

[doubleatrain 0]

I've been validated.

It's just a warm/fuzzy kind of day on FCP. :DAnd because I feel like clearing up the HH, here it is:Poker Room skinLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $1/$29 playersConverterPre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with [Jx] [Qy] UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop: [Qs] [4d] [Th] (9.5SB, 4 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.Turn: [5d] (6.25BB, 3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP3 calls.River: [Ac] (12.25BB, 3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.Results:Final pot: 15.25BB

[Actuary 3]

that's painful to read.I'm a top poster today.I'm not really proud of that

[Zach6668 513]

Wow... after seeing the converted hand.Preflop sucks. Turn raise blows.That is all.- Zach