iggymcfly 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I had to showdown 57 after a PF raise and a continuation bet a couple hands ago, and I'm thinking someone might be tempted to come over the top with something marginal here.Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxCO ($119)Button ($223.95)SB ($38.70)BB ($190.60)Hero ($189.17)MP ($207.05)Preflop: Hero is UTG with [Qs], [Ac]. SB posts a blind of $1. Hero raises to $7, MP raises to $20, 4 folds, Hero calls $13.Flop: ($43) [3s], [5d], [4h] (2 players)Hero checks, MP bets $30, Hero raises to $169.17 (All-In)So, what do you think about this line? It's a pretty big raise in relation to what I'd be winning, but if I'm up against KK, I've got 7 outs, and against JJ, I've got 10. I think my fold equity's great here against AQ and AK, as well as possibly a small overpair. Also, I think there's a very real possibility that my AQ is the best hand right now.Honestly, when I played this pot, the "gambool" light was going off in my head, but in retrospect, I'm not sure it wasn't the right play. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
anyone1 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Looks risky. It probably worked but that doesn't mean it was something you should have done or should keep doing. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 This is a donk move. Igg, you're a good player, and I make a lot of plays myself, but this is just no good. QQ or better calls you. AK sooted may if he reads you right. It's hard not to put this player on anything less than JJ, so really there are two of four hands that this guy can have that you may get a call from, and 2 that you will definitely get one with. Link to post Share on other sites
sixhands 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You got balls igg, I hope for your sake it worked.What was the out come? Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 This is a donk move. Igg, you're a good player, and I make a lot of plays myself, but this is just no good. QQ or better calls you. AK sooted may if he reads you right. It's hard not to put this player on anything less than JJ, so really there are two of four hands that this guy can have that you may get a call from, and 2 that you will definitely get one with.OK, that was actually my gut instinct (that this was wrong). I justified it with a PF read that he could be reraising any two cards, but I think this was really just me getting out of line when I got bored.The thing that threw me was that villain claimed to fold JJ, putting me on a set. If I knew villain was tight enough to fold 66-JJ (which I really didn't), then does the play gain value? Unless I'm against AA, I'm not more than a 2:1 underdog, so I'd think that if he lays this down close to half the time, I'm in the clear.Again, with as little of a read as I had, I'm sure this was probably wrong, but I don't think it's that wrong, if that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Pupsta 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 i like the move. i did something similar to this in a tourney yesterday and was right about me having 7 outs. with the fold equity, i definitely like the move. AA-QQ are calling you, and you're getting AK to fold (which is a distinct possibility here) Link to post Share on other sites
Garn 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 i don't even see this as a semibluff though. drawing to an inside straight is not +ev. plus there is a good chance that he has an Ace too. however, as a bluff i hope that it worked for you. Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Fold to his preflop reraise. The fact that they saw you show one bluff does not mean they will start coming over the top of you. Most of them are not paying much attention and those that are will likely assume that you are tilted or a SLAG donk and will be tentative about making a move on you. Furthermore, a reraise from the small blind usually does not signal a steal attempt. Your position is enticing, but in my opinion it is not enough to justify calling with a hand that is likely dominated, and oftentimes will cause you to lose your whole stack. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 ehhhhhh........I'm not sure if I like it a whole lot......maybe if you really know your players your against......I wouldn't call it a "donk" move necessarily....but I am not sure if it is a profitable one to be using very much.... Link to post Share on other sites
Kaedin 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 is this $1-$2 NL?Am I the only one that doesnt like this preflop? You raised, he came back and said hello, i can beat AQ. Worse, you're out of position the rest of the hand.AQ is a tricky tricky hand. Im assuming villain called with his overpair? Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 is this $1-$2 NL?Am I the only one that doesnt like this preflop? You raised, he came back and said hello, i can beat AQ. Worse, you're out of position the rest of the hand.AQ is a tricky tricky hand. Im assuming villain called with his overpair?No, like I said earlier, villain folded and said he had JJ. I was kind of skeptical that he actually laid down a hand that big, and I was thinking there was a pretty good chance that he actually reraised PF with garbage and threw out a continuation bet when he missed. Link to post Share on other sites
macphec 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I don't like the pf call of the reraise. Dominated way too much. I think your push is a really risky play (and looks liek a bluff) as you could easily be up against AA and drawing thin to a split.If you think villian can fold his overpair often enough I guess it's not too bad.I vote for -EV long term though. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I don't like the call of the re-raise preflop. I don't hate making a move on this flop, but, I'd prefer it if I was fairly confident my Q was live. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think this is pretty read-dependent. I don't think you can just discard the fact that you had just shown a bluff, but a read on this specific person would help as well.Anyhow, I don't hate this move at all if this is the type of player that would go over the top with anything. Based on the way it played out, including his claim of having JJ, I would bet that you were ahead pre- and post-flop. Link to post Share on other sites
srblan 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 It's funny that he read your overbet for strength. It seemed more like weakness to me, but your flat call of his raise probably made him put you on either a small pair or overcards. To me, the all in would have indicated overcards... Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If your table image was a bit shaky, I would think you have about zero fold equity here, which makes this move even worse in my eyes. People with middleish pairs are looking for any reason to think they are winning, and a flop like that more than encourages it.I can't believe he didn't call you there. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
srblan 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If your table image was a bit shaky, I would think you have about zero fold equity here, which makes this move even worse in my eyes. People with middleish pairs are looking for any reason to think they are winning, and a flop like that more than encourages it.I can't believe he didn't call you there. MarkSeriously. I would have called in a shot. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I think the fact that the villain did not call suggests that the OP was right...the guy was just trying to steal preflop. I sincerely doubt he laid down anything that could beat AQ here. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 There's not much to be said about bluffs.They're +EV when they work, and -EV when they don't.Any over pair is going to seriously consider calling you. You're only going to push out *maybe* 22 and Ax, or Kx (if they called). Link to post Share on other sites
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