thecamelot 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I got confused on this hand... Is betting the flop to protect the hand OK or should I go for a c/r as no one with the heart draw is going away anyways?Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with [6c], [6d]. 1 fold, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls.Flop: (8.50 SB) [2h], [Jh], [6h] (4 players)Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.Turn: (8.75 BB) [Ah] (3 players)Hero ...? Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 c/r flop for valuec/c turn. Link to post Share on other sites
etip 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think you played it fine up to this point.I would tag UTG+1 as just being aggressive/following up on his pre-flop action, and UTG+2 on a flush draw/AJ.On the turn I would check and -if UTG+1 bets and UTG+2 calls/folds, I would raise (the odds are good that you either ( a ) have the best hand against two pair or ( b ) have the worst hand but will make the best hand on the river w/ 4-9 outs). If you get re-raised you can call and then act accordingly on the river.if UTG+1 bets and UTG+2 raises, fold.On the river, unless it is a non-boat heart, i would bet and -if the river is an ace or J, call if raised.if the river is a 2 or 6, re-raise if raised.fold if raised otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 c/r flop for valuec/c turn. That is just plain awful. Especially if we c/r the flop, or even play it how OP did and 3-bet. I'm not risking a free card to the Kh. Link to post Share on other sites
Pancake407 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I like a c/r on the floplead turn Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 That is just plain awful. Especially if we c/r the flop, or even play it how OP did and 3-bet. I'm not risking a free card to the Kh.huh?there are 4 's on board.We are behind now almost always.And aren't getting called when we are ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I'm thinking bet/3-bet flop is MUCH better than check/raise in this situation, generally.People do very goofy, very loose, and very aggressive things on suited flops. Being first to act, I think we win more money from a Fundamental Theorem of Poker standpoint when we make people call 1 and face 3, or call 2 and face 3 or 4 frequently. And there's of course the (small but catastrophic) chance the flop gets checked around. c/c turn.That is just plain awful. Especially if we c/r the flop, or even play it how OP did and 3-bet. I'm not risking a free card to the Kh.4th heart hit the turn, so the Kh is already there.Check/calling the turn looks suspicious after bet/3-betting the flop, but the good news is:a) Your first position check might make the Qh fear a check/raise, and either way you'll rarely see the river fore more than one big bet.B) The money we got in on the flop provided more than enough overlay to draw to the river.And of course, go apeshit if you fill up on the river. Even if you have to check/call two cold on the turn, still go apeshit on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 TJ, I like to play sets fast, too; and in this case, we get more bets in with a C/R, imo, due to our relative pos. If UTG pop our lead, we wil lend up HU, alot.Maybe not a horrible thing, I just think we can afford to pump the pot Link to post Share on other sites
Pancake407 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 oh wow, i thought the third heart hit the turn. i dont lead there, my fault. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 TJ, I like to play sets fast, too; and in this case, we get more bets in with a C/R, imo, due to our relative pos. If UTG pop our lead, we wil lend up HU, alot.Maybe not a horrible thing, I just think we can afford to pump the potYeah, it sucks for our relative position that UTG raised right behind us... and we would have gotten more bets total (possibly) from a c/r.But UTG+2 cold/called 2... and we get to punish him more with bet/3-bet.I think with 4+ players, we're better off trying to get as many customers to pay as many bets as possible.Being first to act with 3 other players, I lead. I think it's fine to check/raise 2 villains though. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 TJ,UTG+1 lead preflop.Are you less sure he will bet for us on the flop because its scary?I can see that, but that's why I don't lead..he pops it too often. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 oh wow, i thought the third heart hit the turn. i dont lead there, my fault.I didn't even notice there was even a flush draw. Disregard my above statements. c/c is ok.We need admin to finish fixing the suit icons!- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 TJ,UTG+1 lead preflop.Are you less sure he will bet for us on the flop because its scary?I can see that, but that's why I don't lead..he pops it too often.That I didn't see.I guess a check/raise is better then. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 My apologies, Actuary- Zachno problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 no problem. Link to post Share on other sites
etip 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think you played it fine up to this point.I would tag UTG+1 as just being aggressive/following up on his pre-flop action, and UTG+2 on a flush draw/AJ.On the turn I would check and -if UTG+1 bets and UTG+2 calls/folds, I would raise (the odds are good that you either ( a ) have the best hand against two pair or ( b ) have the worst hand but will make the best hand on the river w/ 4-9 outs). If you get re-raised you can call and then act accordingly on the river.if UTG+1 bets and UTG+2 raises, fold.On the river, unless it is a non-boat heart, i would bet and -if the river is an ace or J, call if raised.if the river is a 2 or 6, re-raise if raised.fold if raised otherwise.Oops for some reason I thought 3 hearts were on the board, not 4 - disregard everything I said lol.And yes, I just quoted myself. Link to post Share on other sites
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