I Called In Sick Today

[Dread Aidan 8]

This is where I am right now, so take this with a grain of salt.My take:

Pretty sure you're way off on your take on Paterno.And the GA himself has specifically said he witnessed "a sexual act," so I don't think anything else you said matters after that.

[The Ocho 970]

Pretty sure you're way off on your take on Paterno.And the GA himself has specifically said he witnessed "a sexual act," so I don't think anything else you said matters after that.

Ya, if he saw a half wall with only the top halves of a naked man and a naked 10 y/o boy exposed, it's not like that makes it a gray area.I don't think you go assuming they are two centaurs showering. Or maybe you do, what they fuck do I know?

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

and i dont see how the Stanford Prison expirment has anything to do with this guy not doing anything when he saw a man raping a boy in the showers.

[brvheart 1,752]

Pretty sure you're way off on your take on Paterno.And the GA himself has specifically said he witnessed "a sexual act," so I don't think anything else you said matters after that.

I'm not saying I'm not way off, but I'm more saying that I don't want to condemn him for something I don't know.I didn't see any quotes from the GA, and I agree with your assessment if that's true.

[brvheart 1,752]

and i dont see how the Stanford Prison expirment has anything to do with this guy not doing anything when he saw a man raping a boy in the showers.

Are you joking?

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Are you joking?

no im not joking. the stanford prison experiment was about people accepting roles and how power can corrupt people. how did this guy not stopping the act have anyhting to do with that?from wikipedia:The results of the experiment are said to support situational attribution of behavior rather than dispositional attribution. In other words, it seemed the situation caused the participants' behavior, rather than anything inherent in their individual personalities. In this way, it is compatible with the results of the also-famous Milgram experiment, in which ordinary people fulfilled orders to administer what appeared to be agonizing and dangerous electric shocks to a confederate of the experimenter.maybe you could argue that it was the bystander effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

[mrdannyg 274]

It made me think about speedz's and vb's posts about the graduate assistant and whether he did everything right. Witnessing what took place and not doing anything RIGHT THEN is just awful. Maybe you don't have to rush in there and start throwing punches, but you have to start yelling or doing something to make it stop. For fuck's sake man. And if yelling doesn't stop it, then you need to do something physical to make it stop. And call 911 immediately. Don't go home and call your dad. You're 28 years old. Fucking do something.

I don't get how this guy is not getting lynched. There was another incident, where a janitorial staff member saw Sandusky showering with a boy at an odd time. He did not see anything sexual, though he saw them holding hands as they walked out of the building. He didn't recognize Sandusky. That, I can understand taking to your supervisor. Which he did, immediately, such that his supervisor came out and saw Sandusky just getting in his car, and recognized him.If you see a man doing something sexual with a 10-year in the shower, you have two options. If you are pretty sure he doesn't have a weapon, and you are able to physically subdue him, you call 911 immediately, give them a location, and physically stop the act. If you are not able to physically prevent it, you call 911 immediately, then shout, make noise, get a friend, whatever you need to do to stop it. Maybe get a picture of the guy. DEFINITELY try to keep the kid around so he can be helped.Anything else is worthy of jail. That's it.

[brvheart 1,752]

no im not joking. the stanford prison experiment was about people accepting roles and how power can corrupt people. how did this guy not stopping the act have anyhting to do with that?from wikipedia:The results of the experiment are said to support situational attribution of behavior rather than dispositional attribution. In other words, it seemed the situation caused the participants' behavior, rather than anything inherent in their individual personalities. In this way, it is compatible with the results of the also-famous Milgram experiment, in which ordinary people fulfilled orders to administer what appeared to be agonizing and dangerous electric shocks to a confederate of the experimenter.maybe you could argue that it was the bystander effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

The GA was driven to inaction by his social role. That's exactly what it was about.The bystander effect is much more about not doing something because you pass off the responsibility of helping on other people around. There weren't other people around. The reason he didn't take more action is almost 100% for sure, because he was concerned about his career.

[brvheart 1,752]

I don't get how this guy is not getting lynched. There was another incident, where a janitorial staff member saw Sandusky showering with a boy at an odd time. He did not see anything sexual, though he saw them holding hands as they walked out of the building. He didn't recognize Sandusky. That, I can understand taking to your supervisor. Which he did, immediately, such that his supervisor came out and saw Sandusky just getting in his car, and recognized him.If you see a man doing something sexual with a 10-year in the shower, you have two options. If you are pretty sure he doesn't have a weapon, and you are able to physically subdue him, you call 911 immediately, give them a location, and physically stop the act. If you are not able to physically prevent it, you call 911 immediately, then shout, make noise, get a friend, whatever you need to do to stop it. Maybe get a picture of the guy. DEFINITELY try to keep the kid around so he can be helped.Anything else is worthy of jail. That's it.

If you put the GA in the exact same situation with a stranger with a kid, I would bet my life savings that he would have done much more to stop the situation. The issue at hand is that he knew the guy, and knew that he was almost head coach at one time, and that he could still influence the GA's career in a negative way. That's why the GA took the low-key approach.

[Roll the Bones 74]

That's pretty crazy. In general, I agree with the statement in the article "The justification for the exception is that a guilty man could game the system by refusing or even fighting testing at trial, then fight for testing after conviction to buy himself some time before sentencing is carried out." In this case, I can't believe that it's a even question whether he can get the testing done now, knowing that he requested the testing but his corrupt public defender / former prosecutor decided not to pursue it. I would think that would be grounds for a mistrial?

I forgot about this. But yeah, the whole story about the public defender assigned to him was pretty amazing, or pathetic as the case might be. Glad to see he is at least getting the testing and I'm amazed the prosecuters fought it so much.

[SBriand 4]

Someone on the radio today said that what the GA went through was a trauma and that is why he didn't react and he should have gone to see someone for PTSD. Just in case it needs to be clarified, I don't support the above statement.

[Dread Aidan 8]

If you put the GA in the exact same situation with a stranger with a kid, I would bet my life savings that he would have done much more to stop the situation. The issue at hand is that he knew the guy, and knew that he was almost head coach at one time, and that he could still influence the GA's career in a negative way. That's why the GA took the low-key approach.

That seems more like after-the-fact rationalization. I don't see how your first instinct when witnessing this would be to think about your career prospects. And do you really want a career in a place that would somehow hinder your advancement because you stopped child rape?

[brvheart 1,752]

That seems more like after-the-fact rationalization. I don't see how your first instinct when witnessing this would be to think about your career prospects. And do you really want a career in a place that would somehow hinder your advancement because you stopped child rape?

I'm not saying that I would. I would hope that everyone on Earth would by-pass their boss and call the police, but obviously, that didn't happen. And I think it wouldn't happen way more than you are assuming. I definitely think the majority of people would tell someone (like a supervisor)... although some (many?) would keep totally quiet. (If the person involved was an authority-type figure or someone that could effect their long-term career) But I believe that <50% would attack the guy on the spot (probably less than 25%), and I think <75% would call the police over their bosses head. (but probably way less. I'm not sure that anyone I knew at Wells Fargo would have just called the cops and not told the boss and let them handle it. Hundreds of people worked there and would you really want to take responsibility for the cops showing up and shutting down the entire office? That's a big commitment, and definitely a demotion/fireable offense if you are wrong.)Obviously this is speculation, but I've read wayyyy too many psychological studies that contain shocking human behavior.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

yeah i just dont buy the connection between the SPE and this douchebags inability to act. for whatever reason he did nothing when he saw this. i dont think, like DA said, he saw the raping and said to himself, "hey now, this guy can hurt my career, better let him finish." my guess would be he saw it and froze. he freake out and ran and then wanted to shed himself of the burden as quickly as possible, so he tells pateron so he can sleep at night. they'll handle it, i did all i could, they are the ones with the power. hence my refernce to the bystander effect. obviously not exactly the same, but closer than the SPE, imo.

[Napa Lite 3,278]

Meh

[Dread Aidan 8]

I think it's interesting that the GA was a QB at Penn State and his former teammates all talk about what a great leader he was. I don't know that there is any insight to be gleamed from that; I just find it interesting.Has anybody read the grand jury indictment? I started reading some of it and got sick to my stomach.

[Napa Lite 3,278]

I read a couple pages but then IE freaked out on me and I never bothered opening it back up. Unreal stuff.

[brvheart 1,752]

Meh

I would also go with "you're not a pussy". But that situation was way way different. We aren't just talking about a general "stressful" situation.

[brvheart 1,752]

Has anybody read the grand jury indictment? I started reading some of it and got sick to my stomach.

No, but that would probably be a good idea for me to do, before you know, I completely form my opinions of the situation.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Has anybody read the grand jury indictment? I started reading some of it and got sick to my stomach.

yeah i read it. it was awesome becuase sandusky admitted to showering with a boy and hugging the boy in the shower, and they made him promise not to do it anymore.

[brvheart 1,752]

I think it's interesting that the GA was a QB at Penn State and his former teammates all talk about what a great leader he was. I don't know that there is any insight to be gleamed from that; I just find it interesting.

The GA is the opposite of a great leader. He's a coward, and probably a terrible human being.I'm half-way through the Grand Jury thing now, and it seems like Paterno was pretty insistent on them taking care of it, even though he didn't have the facts. He called them to his home to talk about it, and then later asked them why they weren't moving on it. That was after they had already told him it was taken care of. So far, while Paterno needs to be gone over this, he does appear to be one of the few people actually concerned.

[speedz99 145]

The reason he didn't take more action is almost 100% for sure, because he was concerned about his career.

my guess would be he saw it and froze. he freake out and ran and then wanted to shed himself of the burden as quickly as possible, so he tells pateron so he can sleep at night. they'll handle it, i did all i could, they are the ones with the power. hence

I think it's a combination of the two. I think walking in on that would be a crazy jolt to the system, first of all, and then there's the fact that Sandusky was a really powerful guy in the program. But there's no such thing as an excuse for not acting, regardless of how many cowards out there would have done the same thing.

Has anybody read the grand jury indictment? I started reading some of it and got sick to my stomach.

Well shit, now I have to. Thanks.

[brvheart 1,752]

Tim Curley and Gary Schultz are terrible people and should be in prison for the rest of their lives.Here it is, Speedz.

[speedz99 145]

The GA is the opposite of a great leader. He's a coward, and probably a terrible human being.I'm half-way through the Grand Jury thing now, and it seems like Paterno was pretty insistent on them taking care of it, even though he didn't have the facts. He called them to his home to talk about it, and then later asked them why they weren't moving on it. That was after they had already told him it was taken care of. So far, while Paterno needs to be gone over this, he does appear to be one of the few people actually concerned.

Yes, it's unfortunate that his concern and lack of accompanying action didn't prevent all the future rapes.

[speedz99 145]

Tim Curley and Gary Schultz are terrible people and should be in prison for the rest of their lives.

Oh most definitely.Yeah, just scanned it. Pretty much what I expected.