Dread Aidan 8 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I was also wondering this. Another thing I was wondering: why did everyone all of a sudden start talking about poker? Did something recent happen?Something about Full Tilt being involved in a social security scam. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Something about Full Tilt being involved in a social security scam.A+ would read again. Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 A+ would read again.Joke stealer Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Joke stealerYou know what, September 21st, 2011 should have been the best posting day of my life, this should have been my triumph and I got to enjoy it for maybe 9 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I don't know what's going on. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Did we...uh, did we just hear it?I saw his name in the 'friends' list of someone from here on facebook. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The story is still a bit fuzzy, and I guess we don't know all the details yet. But am I right in the assumption that a lot of the money that the Full Tilt "Pro's" played with was given to them from FT out of the pool of deposits? Is that the main issue at hand? Or was it that money was otherwise invested in the company (even though it should have been separate)? Or was it outright embezzled?They had always insisted that player money was protected and separated, when in reality it wasn't. The owners were paying themselves large amounts of money (around $40 million each over the years), but the company itself did not actually keep enough money to maintain player deposits. Supposedly they owed players around $350 million, but a recent email by Lederer suggested they only had something like $6million on hand. They kept afloat for some time by getting new deposits to pay out players, ponzi-style, but eventually they could not even get new deposits due to crackdowns on payment processors. Nevertheless they continued to credit players accounts with that "money" even though it didn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 They had always insisted that player money was protected and separated, when in reality it wasn't. The owners were paying themselves large amounts of money (around $40 million each over the years), but the company itself did not actually keep enough money to maintain player deposits. Supposedly they owed players around $350 million, but a recent email by Lederer suggested they only had something like $6million on hand. They kept afloat for some time by getting new deposits to pay out players, ponzi-style, but eventually they could not even get new deposits due to crackdowns on payment processors. Nevertheless they continued to credit players accounts with that "money" even though it didn't exist.So, if they owe $350 million, and they payed players (Lederer, etc) $40 million, what did they do with the other $310 million that was deposited but they no longer have?Was it invested in the company (it building the website and software) or was the "$40 million" given to players really a much larger number?Also, by "paying themselves large amounts of money," were they actually taking money and giving it to players, or were they just inventing money within the Full Tilt economy? (Ie Lederer's account magically goes to $40 million). Though, depending on how often those players cash out, there's really no clear distinction between the two. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So are they all moving to non-extradition countries?Edit: I just looked at the list...not a lot of good options there. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So, if they owe $350 million, and they payed players (Lederer, etc) $40 million, what did they do with the other $310 million that was deposited but they no longer have?Was it invested in the company (it building the website and software) or was the "$40 million" given to players really a much larger number?Also, by "paying themselves large amounts of money," were they actually taking money and giving it to players, or were they just inventing money within the Full Tilt economy? (Ie Lederer's account magically goes to $40 million). Though, depending on how often those players cash out, there's really no clear distinction between the two.Lederer and Ferguson were owners, not players in this scenario. They were taking money into their personal bank accounts, not investing it in Full Tilt. Much of the money was found in American and Swiss bank accounts belonging to the owners, but we can assume a lot of it was spent. Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So, if they owe $350 million, and they payed players (Lederer, etc) $40 million, what did they do with the other $310 million that was deposited but they no longer have?Was it invested in the company (it building the website and software) or was the "$40 million" given to players really a much larger number?Also, by "paying themselves large amounts of money," were they actually taking money and giving it to players, or were they just inventing money within the Full Tilt economy? (Ie Lederer's account magically goes to $40 million). Though, depending on how often those players cash out, there's really no clear distinction between the two.It's ~$40mm to 4 people each, and it's cash removed from the company and paid out to them/their companies. I don't think they're included unfunded balances paid to themselves but they do imply it about others in terms of amounts 'loaned' to players to play with (unknown if we're talking about battles with isuldur or epic craps degenning or what) The rest was apparently distributed to other red pros, etc in smaller amounts. The only reason we're not talking about them is because they havent been named in the suit. Yet. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Lederer and Ferguson were owners, not players in this scenario. They were taking money into their personal bank accounts, not investing it in Full Tilt. Much of the money was found in American and Swiss bank accounts belonging to the owners, but we can assume a lot of it was spent.Yeah, that's pretty badThe rest was apparently distributed to other red pros, etc in smaller amounts. The only reason we're not talking about them is because they havent been named in the suit. Yet.This is what I'm curious about. Did the FT Pros get free, made-up money from Full Tilt? And, even if they did (but are not owners), did they do anything wrong (because it would essentially have been a payment for playing on the site). Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 This is what I'm curious about. Did the FT Pros get free, made-up money from Full Tilt? And, even if they did (but are not owners), did they do anything wrong (because it would essentially have been a payment for playing on the site).It's not clear yet. They certainly got paid for being Red Pros, and since 'normal' players got amounts credited to their account balances that FTP had not successfully been able to withdraw from the player's bank account, it seems likely that the Pros did too. Did the Pros know that, though? Clonie surely thought she was getting screwed but maybe she was lucky. Link to post Share on other sites
Sickinfo2 291 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Love the expression on the overly padded woman observer...I do have to give Randy credit for one thing...he inspired me to invent something that will shorty sweep the nationWe will be richer than all the poker crooks combined...Ill tweet a pic of the prototype in a few minutes Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Seems about right Link to post Share on other sites
Dawson Leery 12 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 oh yeah. he was pretty funny. wasn't that kid in something else fairly recently, like in the last 4 years or so? he looked familiar but I couldn't place him. guess I could check imdb but I'm already typing this here so why bother opening a new window you know?LOL. Tabs, bro.This is what I'm curious about. Did the FT Pros get free, made-up money from Full Tilt? And, even if they did (but are not owners), did they do anything wrong (because it would essentially have been a payment for playing on the site).The players? No, I don't think they would be considered doing anything wrong in that scenario, but the owners are wrong.I open an account with $1,000Phil Ivey is given $1,000 in free, made up moneyWe play, and I pwn (OBVY)I now have $1,900 (fckng rake), Ivey has $0 left of the made up moneyFull Tilt player deposits are only $1,000, but I'm owed $1,900To me, it's the same as if they had given Ivey cash Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So are they all moving to non-extradition countries?Edit: I just looked at the list...not a lot of good options there.Andorra or Vanuatu... Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah, it's not very good.the thing that pisses me off the most is the dates. I hate the posting times being out of order because really, what sense does that make? previously you could at least change it back, but now it's nooo, this is what you get. too damn stupid for me. I'm gonna try to give this ole google+ a go. see if it's worth it. I have one person in a circle right now. oh sorry I'm busy that dayI DIDN'T ASK YOU but I mean after you're done later in the day maybe?Something about Full Tilt being involved in a social security scam.why yes this indeed was funnyLOL. Tabs, bro.still another click you fucking go getter Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I have one person in a circle right now.Sounds like you've really mastered it. Link to post Share on other sites
LimbaughGod 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 anyways, so did anybody see the mayweather/ortiz fight? jesus h christ. you seriously don't get any shittier than that. and I was doing all good not being racist or anything until the whole bar full of canadians erupted hooting and hollaring after the cheap shot like it was some magnificent fancy move. now I gotta buy new white sheets and vote for rick perry. god damn it.I hate Mayweather as much as the next guy. He's the typical uneducated rapper-style negroid with a loud mouth and monkey antics. and I agree the fight was lame how it went down. but you seriously can't be blaming Mayweather for any of that. The beaner launched a head-butt into his face. blatantly illegal, dirty and intended to do illegal, dirty damage. Then he threw a punch as they were being broken up and as Mayweather was reeling form the head-butt.Mayweather responded by blasting the wet-haired Home Depot parking lot reject in his grill after they touched gloves. It was unexpected yes, it was not "good sportsmanship" but it was legal and was a response to Ortiz and his flat out cheating head-butts and elbows.Takin'-our-jobs Otiz deserved it. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 It was unexpected yes, it was not "good sportsmanship" but it was legal and was a response to Ortiz and his flat out cheating head-butts and elbows.this is the main point. not that it was illegal; it wasn't, it was just a crappy way for him to win. my main argument was all those "negroids" as you call them, in the bar acting like it was a great fight. I mean at least half of you can appreciate that can't you?haha, get it? Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Sounds like you've really mastered it.I just added brv to a circle. at least I guess it was him. might have been somebody pretending to be him. I'm getting the hang of it!no I'm not. Link to post Share on other sites
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