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low limit hand - you make the call


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I'm killing some time here at work, so I thought I would offer this up for discussion. (yes it's stolen from sshe) Just wanted to get your thoughts.You have the 9 :D 2 :) in the big blind. Two players limp in, the small blind completes, and you check (four small bets). The flop is 9 :club: 8 :) 3 :) , giving you top pair. The small blind bets. What should you do?

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i'd call, try to see another card.Some might raise, but you could still be facing someone who limped with a small pair and hit a set or who has two over cards or limped with something like TJ and has an OESD.Then again, i'm probably stil a little bit passive post-flop. I'm working on it.

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I would call and look for my hand to improve on the turn. If it doesnt I fold to a bet on turn. There are so many cards that will beat your hand (higher pair on turn or river, better kicker, flush draw, etc...)

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fold. You have no kicker and there is a straight draw out there. Am I the only one to notice that SIK makes two pair here, hmmmmm :wink:

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I think that a call is out of the question. Either raise or fold. I just can't see calling with the hope of improving. You're hoping for one of the two remaining 9's or a 2 that isn't a club. I probably fold, but there may be a case for raising.

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I put in a raise here. If its called or reraised then I slow down. My guess is that one of the limpers is on steal with 2 over cards and/or a straight draw. If he is drawing then you're ahead. If a scare card comes later on then you call throw it away but I dont think folding top pair on a 9 high board is a good play.

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hey kdawg, am i mistaken or are those phish lyrics as your signature.
thank you for noticing. I was really hoping someone would ask me that. Its from Suzy Greenberg
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DO NOT CALL. FOLD is better than CALL, but both are the wrong play.I raise to get the overcards out, they are not calling 2 cold with just overcards. I bet SB has an 8 and didn't think anyone improved. Of course he could be ahead, but not likely. But I would raise and fold if he 3 bet it. The only overpair they could have is TT, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA. I can't believe the small blind did not raise with any of those. So unless he has another 9 with a better kicker (which you would find out if he three bet it), you are ahead and he is drawing for something. Get your money in when you are ahead and you will be profitable in the long run.

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from SSHE:Fold. Getting 5-to-1 pot odds looks favorable. These odds suggest that you need to win only 17 percent of the time to call profitably. But your true odds are much worse than 5-to-1. If you have the best hand, you are unlikely to get a lot of action from weaker hands. You may get one loose player to pay you off with a smaller pair, but otherwise you cannot expect to make much on the turn and the river. On the other hand, plenty of cards could give your opponents a bigger pair, a straight, or a flush. If an opponent does draw out on you, you may not know it and end up paying him off. Finally, you could already be behind to someone with an overpair or a 9 with a better kicker. If so, you may again be paying off on the turn and the river. There is a much greater chance that you will be the one paying off the big bets on the later streets than the one getting paid off. You could call profitably if it would leave you all in, but since you cannot, we say you are getting reverse implied odds. And in this case, those reverse implied odds are not high enough to allow you to play the hand. With a weak, made hand, especially when the pot is small, reverse implied odds sometimes force you to fold when the pot odds support continuing. You will be paying off a better hand for big bets far more often than someone will pay you off. When the pot is small, if there is a big chance that you are either already beaten or will be outdrawn, fold marginal made hands.

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so basically, unless you flop trips or two pair, fold this sucker to any bet.
According to Miller & Sklansky, yep. It does seem like a situation where you'll only get called by hands that beat you, especicially if you don't improve on the turn.
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But that's why I said raise. Most likely the people behind you will not be calling with over cards, therefore you only have to worry about the SB. If they raise again, you fold, but if they call, he figure you can at least get a free card or bet the turn with intention to check the river. I still say raise. I would rather lose 1BB (really 2x 1 sb) and know where I stand and also have the fold equity behind my raise than just give up on the 6.5 sb's out there.But then again, I'm no DN. Maybe he should answer our question.

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Fold.Think about it you have top pair with no kicker. Why call? Your either hoping to catch another 9, which you still may end up beat if anyone has A 9. Maybe you want to catch a 2. The odds of catching any card that improves your hand on turn is 11%. If you play to win money that is a horrible call.When you are faces with those kind of decisions think about what cards will make your hand better, then think about all the cards that will make your hand seem much, much worse. IMO don't ever call a bet with top pair and no kicker with the only hopes of catching trips or two pair, unless you think whoever betting to you is extremely weak.

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