K9 In Late Position

[sche0576 0]

I was wondering how all of you would play this. I was at B&M tonight playing 4/8 and after a few hours we were down to 5 handed. Players are your typical 4/8 B&M players. Since it became shorthanded I had raised 3 of the last 5 hands winning all 3--2 without a showdown. I am CO.UTG folds, I raise w/ Kd 9s, button folds, small blind folds, BB 3-bets, I call(Since I have been raising so many hands, I think he can be on a pretty wide range of hands here)flopKc, 6h, 8hBB bets, I raise, BB calls(I figure that a raise is best here as continuation bets were made everytime there was a raise all night--when he doesnt 3 bet i assume i am ahead here)turn 5sBB checks, I bet, BB raises, I call(raise worries me here....i call thinking there i may be ahead and have picked up gutshot draw..i dont think he 3 bets with 79 here......thoughts?)river KhBB checks, I check (Missing value bet here?? It completes the flush and I think he may have a K and flush draw worries him....I dont see him calling me here unless he has me beat...thoughts?)What do you think the BB has and how would you have played it? Fold preflop probably???

[Pancake407 0]

he could have a wide range of hands here, because of the fact you've been playing so lag. Im betting that river, calling a check/raise expecting to lose.

[tylerc 0]

everything looks good except maybe missing a bet on the river. i think this is very read dependant and at 4/8 live you are going to get all sorts of characters. against a good player hes checking the river because hes afraid of the flush, just got his two pair counterfeited, he has aa, or he realized that hes not going to bully you out of this pot. against a good player betting the river is the way to go. going for the check raise on the river if you just made your flush is a pretty crappy play in my opinion unless he thinks you are a totally aggro retard. all that being said crappier players are more likely to check here if they have a better king or have made the flush. i usually bet the river here and would love to fold to a check raise but probably call out of stubborness not intelligence. im curious to know how it went.

[ZenBrothers 0]

SH 4/8 plays the same as SH 3/6....(only 3/6 - 5/10 - 10/20 at local B&M)I like everything but the river....If you get C/R so be it....ZenBrothers

[tylerc 0]

SH 4/8 plays the same as SH 3/6....(only 3/6 - 5/10 - 10/20 at local B&M)ZenBrothers

i dont understand what this means. could you clarify?

[mrdannyg 274]

I was wondering how all of you would play this. I was at B&M tonight playing 4/8 and after a few hours we were down to 5 handed. Players are your typical 4/8 B&M players. Since it became shorthanded I had raised 3 of the last 5 hands winning all 3--2 without a showdown. I am CO.UTG folds, I raise w/ Kd 9s, button folds, small blind folds, BB 3-bets, I call(Since I have been raising so many hands, I think he can be on a pretty wide range of hands here)flopKc, 6h, 8hBB bets, I raise, BB calls(I figure that a raise is best here as continuation bets were made everytime there was a raise all night--when he doesnt 3 bet i assume i am ahead here)turn 5sBB checks, I bet, BB raises, I call(raise worries me here....i call thinking there i may be ahead and have picked up gutshot draw..i dont think he 3 bets with 79 here......thoughts?)river KhBB checks, I check (Missing value bet here?? It completes the flush and I think he may have a K and flush draw worries him....I dont see him calling me here unless he has me beat...thoughts?)What do you think the BB has and how would you have played it? Fold preflop probably???

definitely don't raise/fold preflop. if you want to open-fold, i can't comment, since i'm not SH expert.bet this river. you are missing lots of value. he almost certainly is not beating you, and he will likely call you with hands you beat.

[sche0576 0]

I think you guys are right that i missed a value bet on the river...results-based thinking then I definitely did. He ended up having AA and I had to listen to how i caught my 2 outer on the river the rest of the night (dont ask me how he came up w/ 2 outs). He said it was obvious he had AA by 3-betting preflop...oh well. One last question--is anyone else raising pf with this hand?? Thanks for your advice everyone.

[Zach6668 513]

One last question--is anyone else raising pf with this hand?? Thanks for your advice everyone.

5 handed is ok, I'm not the SH specialist though.- Zach

[MasterLJ 0]

I'm not partial to K9os in limit, NL, SH or otherwise. It's a garbage hand on par with Q8os, J7, T6. Cappers are bad mmmkay.

[screech 0]

Everything looks good until the river.It's nice that you included reads about yourself, but reads on the other players help too, You narcissistic ****.j/k.

[sche0576 0]

Everything looks good until the river.It's nice that you included reads about yourself, but reads on the other players help too, You narcissistic ****.j/k.

haha...I guess at that point the guy hadn't been there real long and I thought at the time that his plays were more the result of my agressive play since it seemed to be bothering a lot of the players at the table--like calling down with bottom pair.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I dont know how you can _not_ bet that river. Everything up to that point is pretty straightforward, except possibly waiting for the turn to raise.

[jayboogie 0]

Entire hand is standard really till the river which is an easy bet. Gotta love the players who just love to whine everytime they lose with Aces. Oh yeah and I'm hoping you plan on showing this down UI still.I'm really not sure why you feel he folds anything you beat? He probably likes that King coming if he has a hand like QQ, JJ and will call the river. JUst because your bet gets called when he has you beat doesn't mean it's not a value bet. Your bet needs to be only called and be the winner 55% of the time to make it worth betting, thats the whole concept of value betting, sometimes your going to bet and get called and lose when your value betting, but it still makes it right to bet, because given a range of hands, you get paid off more than 55% of the time.

[NWNewell 0]

At first I didn't really think checking the river was all that bad.But if you disect the hand:He probably put you on a K with your flop raise. They way he played it (only calling your flop raise and c/r the turn), I think odds are he has AA, a strong King or set. But then as the Kh falls and he checks, he is probably afraid of trip Kings or the flush (obviously he didn't have trips and fill up with Kings or have a strong K himself, or he wouldn't have checked). It doesn't make sence for him to put you on a pair of Kings on the flop and then be afraid of a flush when the Kh hits. You probably didn't make a flush.It doesn't make sense for him to 3-bet something like K8 or K5 (witch would have given him a full house). And it doesn't make sense to check/raise the turn on a flush draw.It actually makes sense that he has AA. And it doesn't really make sense that he has trip Kings (even with a 9 kicker) beat.So, value betting the river definitely has better EV than checking.Of couse this is all based on evaluating what a sensable play by your opponent would be. If he is a maniac or a terrible player, you may feel lost and only want to check. If you felt lost, I don't think checking the river was the worst thing in the world. I think your biggest mistake was not trying to disect the hand as I did in this post while the hand was going on and not evaluating the skill/style of your opponent earlier in the session so that you can come to the conclusion that value betting is the better play.I think that was a bigger mistake than the pure river play alone. And if you fix that mistake, you won't make the mistake of missing out on the river value bet.PS And you turn play was fine (dispite what he said). With pot odds of 8.5:1 after his c/r and you possible having 7+ outs (giving him credit for at least a strong K on the turn, with you drawing to two pair or a straight), you're getting proper odds to call the turn.

[ZenBrothers 0]

i dont understand what this means. could you clarify?

Sorry...I was thinking out loud....My local B&M doesn't have 4/8, but Short Handed 3/6 playes about the same as Short Handed 4/8....I understood exactly what I said, too bad I wasn't suppose to be talking to myself ZenBrothers

[tylerc 0]

Sorry...I was thinking out loud....My local B&M doesn't have 4/8, but Short Handed 3/6 playes about the same as Short Handed 4/8....I understood exactly what I said, too bad I wasn't suppose to be talking to myself ZenBrothers

i still dont understand how this is some sort of advice. i think in general live shorthanded at these low stakes is ****ing crazy. i usually raise the **** out of all sorts of hands just to see what kind of people im dealing with. you may lose a lot on the short run but you have to figure out what people recognize the fact that they are short handed and what people just think that the young kid is full of **** and they want to stick it to him. as far as live shorthanded is concerned i think these stakes are actually the hardest to navigate because you are going to get such a large range of players and it is very read dependant.

[Zach6668 513]

B&M is ridiculous 99% of the time anyways. The variance is huge, but the LR is fantasitc!