Turning $100 Into 2k @pp Playing Plo8, Session 5

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Goal-Turn $100 into $2000 playing PLO8 at Party Poker.-I like what Smash've done, I hope that by doing this it will turn more players interested in plo8 and encourage discussions about the strategies beating this game.RulesI will play mostly PLO8 cash games, I may play some tournaments or SnGs when my BR grows.I will play mostly two tables at a time.I will start playing at the $25 level.When I hit $400 I will move to $50.When I hit $800 I will move to $100.When I hit $1400 I will move to $200.I will post hands that I won and lost and explain my thinking behind how I played them. Session 5 SummaryI played about two hours last Saturday night (3/11/2006), it was break even. Not that I didn't win at the cash games, but I lost $33 at a Plo8 SnG. I tried to write something about it but anyway I failed to play well. There was a controversial hand in the cash game which I am going to post. I had some discussions defending my play with the player BadbeatPhil. Did I make the right call? I will put down my thoughts and you make the judgement.Then this Tuesday night I played on and off for about 2 hours. I won about $55 at the cash game then took a crap shoot and lost $11 in a LO8 SnG tournament (which I think I did pretty well but just couldn't make it). Nothing special this session, just regular nut-peddling, pot stealing stuff... ResultsHours played in this session: 4Accumulated hours : 21.5 hoursBeginning BR: $222.46Ending BR: $267.20Money won this session: +$44.74Money won per table per hour in this session: ~$5.6 (i.e., 22 BBs per hour)Money won per table per hour overall: ~$3.9 (i.e., 16 BBs per hour, or about $8/h when two-tabling)A Controversial HandBefore talking about this hand, I need to introduce the players before the play.OpumDopum, call station, chaser, any-4-card player.Here's the hands he played out of blinds OpumDopum doesn't show [ Th, 4h, 9c, 6h ] a pair of threes.OpumDopum shows [ Kh, 4s, 6s, 3h ] a flush, ace high. BadbeatPhil, whiner, overplays his hand and overestimates himself.Here's some of his conversations before the play.BadbeatPhil: wtf are you doing fish?BadbeatPhil: $9 preflop with that trash )BadbeatPhil: o.m.f.g.BadbeatPhil: I feel dumber for having watched that...And here's how he played.** Dealing down cards **Dealt to jkosfcp [ 5h 6d Jh Qh ]OpumDopum calls [$0.25].BadbeatPhil calls [$0.25].o1iOl raises [$1.35].jkosfcp folds.Mesz1 calls [$1.35].DRONE123 calls [$1.35].DontStop folds.melkkoe folds.abba2810 calls [$1.10].OpumDopum calls [$1.10].BadbeatPhil raises [$9.30].Big_Evv has joined the table.o1iOl is all-In [$2.22]Mesz1 folds.DRONE123 calls [$8.20].abba2810 folds.OpumDopum calls [$8.20].** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, 7s, Jc ]OpumDopum checks.BadbeatPhil is all-In [$15.20]DRONE123 is all-In [$15.10]OpumDopum is all-In [$7.21]** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]OpumDopum shows [ 4c, 7d, Td, Ac ] a flush, ace high.BadbeatPhil shows [ Ks, Kc, 5s, 8d ] a straight, five to nine.phantombred: unknown, short-stacked.Now here's the handSeat 1: DontStop ( $21.15 )Seat 2: melkkoe ( $5.72 )Seat 4: abba2810 ( $30.92 )Seat 5: OpumDopum ( $40.58 )Seat 6: BadbeatPhil ( $22.40 )Seat 9: Mesz1 ( $41.10 )Seat 8: jkosfcp ( $36.30 )Seat 7: phantombred ( $6.75 )Seat 10: rrf747 ( $19.36 )Seat 3: TheNew ( $24.73 )OpumDopum posts small blind [$0.10].BadbeatPhil posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to jkosfcp [ Ah 5c 2s 5d ]phantombred calls [$0.25].jkosfcp calls [$0.25].Mesz1 calls [$0.25].rrf747 calls [$0.25].DontStop folds.melkkoe folds.TheNew folds.OpumDopum calls [$0.15].BadbeatPhil checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 7s, Kh ]OpumDopum bets [$0.25].BadbeatPhil calls [$0.25].phantombred calls [$0.25].jkosfcp calls [$0.25].Mesz1 folds.rrf747 folds.Flop, since it only cost me $.25, I took a shot to look at the turn card. ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]OpumDopum checks.BadbeatPhil bets [$2.40].phantombred is all-In [$6.25]jkosfcp calls [$6.25].OpumDopum calls [$6.25].BadbeatPhil is all-In [$19.50]jkosfcp calls [$15.65].OpumDopum calls [$15.65].Here's the major decisions on the turn play.1. I had made my nut low, and I had counterfeit protection. In fact, my low couldn't be counterfeited but only be improved.2. With 4 players in the pot, even though if my hand couldn't be improved and even if I got quartered, it would be about break even, and if I lost by getting quartered, the impact wouldn't be that much.3. With my observations on the quality of the players and their stack sizes, I felt like I made the right call, especially I had outs to improve.But as you can see, I wasn't the aggressor in this hand, I just called and waited to imrpove.** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]OpumDopum checks.jkosfcp is all-In [$13.90]OpumDopum calls [$13.90].OpumDopum shows [ Kd, Ks, 9s, 2c ] three of a kind, kings.BadbeatPhil shows [ 7c, 5h, 6d, 4h ] a straight, three to seven.BadbeatPhil shows 6,5,4,3,A for low.phantombred doesn't show [ Js, 3c, 4s, Jd ] two pairs, fours and threes.jkosfcp shows [ Ah, 5c, 2s, 5d ] a straight, ace to five.jkosfcp shows 5,4,3,2,A for low.jkosfcp wins $13.90 from side pot #2 with a straight, ace to five.jkosfcp wins Lo ($13.90) from side pot #2 with 5,4,3,2,A.BadbeatPhil wins $22.65 from side pot #1 with a straight, three to seven.jkosfcp wins Lo ($22.65) from side pot #1 with 5,4,3,2,A.BadbeatPhil wins $13.08 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.jkosfcp wins Lo ($13.07) from the main pot with 5,4,3,2,A.As I've always said in the lower limits, don't worry that your hand won't get paid off when your hand is improved. There's no need to push for 55% edge on the flop when by the turn/river you've 95%, you will get paid off. Seat 7: devodude ( $41.21 )Seat 9: cheuk9876 ( $7.61 )Seat 1: jkosfcp ( $25.89 )Seat 5: Kshatriya ( $30.38 )Seat 8: JUSTCRUZEN ( $28.78 )Seat 2: sammypoker98 ( $14.09 )Seat 6: RMohrUAB ( $23.75 )Seat 4: doormat ( $2.96 )Seat 3: Rev_1 ( $25 )Seat 10: ElCapitan0 ( $25 )jkosfcp posts small blind [$0.10].sammypoker98 posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to jkosfcp [ 7h 4s As Kd ]doormat calls [$0.25].Kshatriya calls [$0.25].RMohrUAB folds.devodude calls [$0.25].JUSTCRUZEN calls [$0.25].cheuk9876 folds.jkosfcp calls [$0.15].sammypoker98 checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, Ah, 2s ]jkosfcp bets [$1.45].sammypoker98 folds.doormat calls [$1.45].Kshatriya calls [$1.45].devodude folds.JUSTCRUZEN folds.** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]JUSTCRUZEN: rush is crushedjkosfcp bets [$2.80].doormat is all-In [$1.26]Kshatriya calls [$2.80].** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]jkosfcp bets [$12.11].Kshatriya calls [$12.11].jkosfcp shows [ 7h, 4s, As, Kd ] a full house, Aces full of kings.doormat shows [ 5c, Kh, 3s, 6s ] two pairs, aces and kings.doormat shows 7,5,3,2,A for low.Kshatriya doesn't show [ 6c, 2h, 2c, Ks ] a full house, Twos full of aces.jkosfcp wins $25.95 from side pot #1 with a full house, Aces full of kings.jkosfcp wins $4.59 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of kings.doormat wins Lo ($4.59) from the main pot with 7,5,3,2,A.The reason I was potting the flop because I really needed to know where I was at. I had a marginal hand in a marginal situation. If someone potted me back then I had to fold because it's quite likely that one of my opponents was holding A2. In fact the poor player should had potted me back (but if he knew what he should be doing he wouldn't had played that hand in the first place).Since two players just called my pot bet I acutally put one of them holding Ace and another was chasing the low. From turn on the play was standard, pot pot pot. Seat 4: euler__ ( $25.23 )Seat 9: Milesace ( $30.80 )Seat 10: jkosfcp ( $40.44 )Seat 7: tricky1010 ( $37.83 )Seat 2: rsbec ( $17.80 )Seat 6: Joshua_57 ( $25 )Seat 8: RMohrUAB ( $23.30 )Seat 3: akumafx ( $4 )Seat 1: kalekayn ( $5.36 )euler__ posts small blind [$0.10].Joshua_57 posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to jkosfcp [ Ks Ac Qh 2c ]tricky1010 calls [$0.25].RMohrUAB folds.Milesace folds.jkosfcp calls [$0.25].kalekayn: ugh XXXXing riverkalekayn folds.rsbec folds.akumafx folds.euler__ folds.Joshua_57 raises [$0.75].tricky1010 calls [$0.75].jkosfcp calls [$0.75].** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, 4s, Js ]Joshua_57 checks.tricky1010 checks.jkosfcp checks.** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]Joshua_57 checks.tricky1010 bets [$0.25].jkosfcp raises [$2.23].Joshua_57 folds.tricky1010 folds.jkosfcp does not show cards.jkosfcp wins $5.43Preflop, I had a playable hand but I wasn't in a good position so I decided to limp, when being raised it's correct to call.In the lower limits, weak bets most of the time really means weak. "tricky1010" wasn't that tricky to be decoded and played back on the turn. Total number of players : 10 Seat 4: euler__ ( $25.13 )Seat 9: Milesace ( $30.80 )Seat 10: jkosfcp ( $42.64 )Seat 7: tricky1010 ( $36.33 )Seat 2: rsbec ( $15.60 )Seat 6: Joshua_57 ( $26.25 )Seat 8: RMohrUAB ( $25 )Seat 3: akumafx ( $4 )Seat 1: kalekayn ( $25 )Seat 5: gedman ( $25 )tricky1010 posts small blind [$0.10].RMohrUAB posts big blind [$0.25].gedman posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to jkosfcp [ 3h 3s Ac 6c ]Milesace folds.jkosfcp calls [$0.25].kalekayn calls [$0.25].rsbec folds.akumafx folds.euler__ folds.gedman checks.Joshua_57 folds.tricky1010 calls [$0.15].RMohrUAB checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 8c, Kc ]tricky1010 checks.RMohrUAB checks.jkosfcp bets [$1.20].kalekayn folds.gedman folds.tricky1010 folds.RMohrUAB calls [$1.20].** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]RMohrUAB checks.jkosfcp bets [$3.50].RMohrUAB raises [$7].jkosfcp raises [$21].RMohrUAB is all-In [$16.55]** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]jkosfcp shows [ 3h, 3s, Ac, 6c ] four of a kind, threes.jkosfcp shows 8,6,5,3,A for low.RMohrUAB doesn't show [ Kh, 2h, Ks, 6h ] a full house, Kings full of threes.RMohrUAB doesn't show 8,6,5,3,2 for low.jkosfcp wins $0.48 from side pot #1 with four of a kind, threes.jkosfcp wins Lo ($0.47) from side pot #1 with 8,6,5,3,A.jkosfcp wins $24.13 from the main pot with four of a kind, threes.jkosfcp wins Lo ($24.12) from the main pot with 8,6,5,3,A. This hand illustrated something important, if you had made the current breakable nut high hand with little low chance, pot it! Don't let anyone else get the odds to chase. Let them pay to chase. The only time I will slow play is flopping the quad (as what I've done in session one and I put my thoughts there). Someone who calls you is someone who can break you (I am talking about good players who call you). So here's another thing, if you've made a breakable nut high but with no low chance, you have to watch you and your opponents's stacks and make sure there's no implied odds for them. If both you and your opponents have big stacks you need to play more carefully.RMohrUAB is a rock at the $25 level as I observed and I don't blame him for chasing because of the implied odds. Too bad he ran into quads.

[Vman96 0]

I think you played the hand in question fine...especially since you had counterfeit protection....the only thing you really have to worry about is one of the bigger stacks having a2....and looking at your read (previous hands you showed)....i wouldn't count on them having it. Although I haven't commented much....I do enjoy reading these. Keep up the good work.

[Chamonyx 0]

In your discussion hand:On the turn, 2 things can happen after you call:Others call or you get re-raised. If you are re-raised here, are you going to fold? Clearly not. If all call and the flush comes on the river, are you going to call a pot bet by the opener? Probably, since the all-in on the turn may well be the nut nut hand and Phantom did not re-raise the turn. In other words, you are in for everything anyway, so I think you should pot it here to try to make the non nut/nut draws fold, as well as naked A2s (I know, it is $25 table).

[mrdannyg 274]

looks like pretty standard stuff - i don't see any other way to play that "controversial" hand. you could argue reraising, but then you risk pushing people out and getting quartered. on that turn, you want as many people in, for as much as possible, at $25 table.i play every hand the same, except the raise-bluff, since I don't do that at Omaha.and i don't like the quads hand, but only because UAB is a poster here, and a pretty likeable guy in my estimation. that's poker though.oh, i also don't like the non-pot bet when you filled up on the AA2 flop. don't see any reason not to pot that turn.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

looks like pretty standard stuff - i don't see any other way to play that "controversial" hand. you could argue reraising, but then you risk pushing people out and getting quartered. on that turn, you want as many people in, for as much as possible, at $25 table.That's what I thought. But on the second thought, he's also "committed". I bet if I pushed he would had called anyway.i play every hand the same, except the raise-bluff, since I don't do that at Omaha.and i don't like the quads hand, but only because UAB is a poster here, and a pretty likeable guy in my estimation. that's poker though.Any comments on how to play the quad hand any other way? Yes, as I've claimed in the post, UAB is a very solid guy. I tried to run him over a few times but I got crushed once (One hand I remembered very clearly was he made top two, I had the Ace pair + nut low draw+ flush draw on the turn but didn't get there:) ) What's his user id here anyway?oh, i also don't like the non-pot bet when you filled up on the AA2 flop. don't see any reason not to pot that turn. Are we misunderstanding each other? I potted the flop, turn and river.

[mrdannyg 274]

in reverse order:I thought the turn bet was light - don't want to look through the long post, but if I remember correctly, two guys called more than $1 on the flop, then the turn bet was $2.70.I think his ID is similar to his sn - rmohrUAB or something. don't see any better way to play the quads.I was thinking more in terms of keeping others in. that fish is committed, but i'd rather have 4 guys in for $6 there than 2 in for 20.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I thought the turn bet was light - don't want to look through the long post, but if I remember correctly, two guys called more than $1 on the flop, then the turn bet was $2.70.Oh yeah, I didn't. Don't know what I was thinking at that time.Never saw UAB post at O8 forum though, it will be great if he will post.