"but Thats The Old Testament"

[Mattnxtc 0]

if they were exact word for word clones then obviously yes, but if they just told stories in the author's own words that matched up better then no - it wouldn't be an issue.there's a difference between retelling events in your own words and retelling radically different events.right - it doesn't change anything for you because you believe the stories must be true no matter what due to your pre-existing faith. that point has already been made a couple times in this thread.

They match up just fine...people merely try to say this to cause conflict...there are much better points to try to make then thisAnd you know the initial event? You going on the predetermined decision that the bible is false and so you see every "contradiction" as being false...its understandable though since your pride wont let u believe anytime soonpre-existing faith? I believe they are true b/c the historical evidence tells me they are true. B/c the bible has passed the test of time and so far science has done nothing but continued to show the bible to be correct. B/c so far the best argument ive heard from you is that the story isnt exact so its wrong. I have made it clear from the start. All that is necessary is for you to show where the bible is false. Yes you will need more then to say o well the stories arent perfect...This is an old old argument. Has been answered for hundreds of years.

[crowTrobot 2]

...there are much better points to try to make then this

on that i agree. there are much better reasons to suspect the bible is largely fiction. biblical contradictions are pretty strong supporting evidence though, and your responses to those that have been posted are all contrived excuses more than explanations.

You going on the predetermined decision that the bible is false and so you see every "contradiction" as being false...

i'm not assuming it's false. i've predetermined that it's very LIKELY to be false based on other issues, and gospel contraditions just fit the overall pattern.

its understandable though since your pride wont let u believe anytime soon

so i would otherwise be compelled to see things your way if not for pride? maybe you should look at your own ego if that's the way you think.

so far science has done nothing but continued to show the bible to be correct.

nice dream world you live in. you are smarter and more enlightened than the majority of people in the world apparently, since the majority would disagree with that statement.

[Mattnxtc 0]

on that i agree. there are much better reasons to suspect the bible is largely fiction. biblical contradictions are pretty strong supporting evidence though, and your responses to those that have been posted are all contrived excuses more than explanations.

hehe big words with no facts

i'm not assuming it's false. i've predetermined that it's very LIKELY to be false based on other issues, and gospel contraditions just fit the overall pattern.

haha..so u predetermined it to be false b/c u heard there were contradictions and never gave anybody a chance to explain them? hmmm thats not the open mind you claimed to have

so i would otherwise be compelled to see things your way if not for pride? maybe you should look at your own ego if that's the way you think.

No i think your pride makes you bitter to the bible..but again this is all foretold well before your time. As you said, u had a predetermined sense that the bible was false..hmm

nice dream world you live in. you are smarter and more enlightened than the majority of people in the world apparently, since the majority would disagree with that statement.

most of the world? it is a minority that believe there is no God. Science doesnt disprove the concept of God. If so please share. Philosophy doesnt disprove God, Metaphyics doesnt disprove God. Basically all that disproves God is your words in an attempt to do so.

[crowTrobot 2]

hehe big words with no facts

they're all presented numerous times in the case for christ thread. no point rehashing.

haha..so u predetermined it to be false b/c u heard there were contradictions and never gave anybody a chance to explain them? hmmm thats not the open mind you claimed to have

no i've predetermined it to likely be false for other reasons that have nothing to do with internal contradictions.

No i think your pride makes you bitter to the bible..but again this is all foretold well before your time.

preach more please. maybe you'll convert me.

most of the world? it is a minority that believe there is no God.

a majority do not believe in the christian god.

Science doesnt disprove the concept of God.

it doesn't try to. however it DOES disprove the notion that the validity of the christian god as described in the bible is supported through empirical evidence.

Philosophy doesnt disprove God, Metaphyics doesnt disprove God. Basically all that disproves God is your words in an attempt to do so.

i'm not trying to disprove god. i'm trying to show that your belief in him is based on faith, not "scientific" evidence or logic.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I havent preached to you in the least crow. Havent even attempted to. But you see how defensive you get in the least if I say something that could be even remotely perceived as preaching?

it doesn't try to. however it DOES disprove the notion that the validity of the christian god as described in the bible is supported through empirical evidence.

This isnt close to being correct otherwise you would have shown this a long long time ago. But you havent? how come?

i'm not trying to disprove god. i'm trying to show that your belief in him is based on faith, not "scientific" evidence or logic.

Who has said that faith isnt involved? No christian yet. That doesnt mean that we also dont have historical evidence to help us in our faith? As you know the miracles arent being reproduced by science so we take them on faith. Who has said science proves God? Science cant and wont disprove God, heck it cant even give an accurate picture of how the universe was created. As for logic, I can assure you that logic does nothing for disproving God in anyway. You can make many a logical statements where the outcome is a creator. No philosophy that you can produce will in anyway hurt christianity.

[crowTrobot 2]

I havent preached to you in the least crow. Havent even attempted to. But you see how defensive you get in the least if I say something that could be even remotely perceived as preaching?

you frequently digress into spouting emotional-based nonsense that has nothing to do with the issues being discussed. when i'm sarcastic about that it isn't being defensive.

This isnt close to being correct otherwise you would have shown this a long long time ago. But you havent? how come?

it doesn't matter what you think since nothing i've ever posted has been for your benefit.

No philosophy that you can produce will in anyway hurt christianity.

it won't hurt your personal belief, no. generally speaking the tendency in modern society towards analytical thought is hurting the underpinnings of christianity a great deal, though. in 100-200 years i doubt it will be around at all - belief in god will necessarily morph into something much more generic.

[Mattnxtc 0]

you frequently digress into spouting emotional-based nonsense that has nothing to do with the issues being discussed. when i'm sarcastic about that it isn't being defensive.

If i am responding to any comment i quote it just like this so that anybody involved can read exactly what I am responding to. If you are being sarcastic thenn I cannot know that as it is the internet and that makes it hard. I dont use emotion unless it is part of the topic that we are discussing.

it doesn't matter what you think since nothing i've ever posted has been for your benefit.

If i recall, you have posted one origin website and have used that and only that so far. Further you avoided the question i posed to this questions:

it doesn't try to. however it DOES disprove the notion that the validity of the christian god as described in the bible is supported through empirical evidence.

I asked you for the evidence and u respond with it doesnt matter? Nobody on here is some nut. If you have evidence that christianity is false please share them. I wouldnt want to follow something that is false now would I? If you have the evidence please show it.

it won't hurt your personal belief, no. generally speaking the tendency in modern society towards analytical thought is hurting the underpinnings of christianity a great deal, though. in 100-200 years i doubt it will be around at all - belief in god will necessarily morph into something much more generic.

Again this really doesnt have anything to do with anything. I believe all the enlightened people rely on philosophy. Modern society hasnt hurt christianity in the least bit. Yes you do hope that christianity fades away b/c otherwise you just might have to face God knowing what you know. Not preaching just speakin the truth. So far christianity has withstood 2000 years without changing and im sure it will survive another 200

[crowTrobot 2]

I asked you for the evidence and u respond with it doesnt matter?

no i said it's all in the case for christ thread and it's pointless to keep rehashing it.

Modern society hasnt hurt christianity in the least bit.

lol

Yes you do hope that christianity fades away b/c otherwise you just might have to face God knowing what you know.

preaching

[Mattnxtc 0]

no i said it's all in the case for christ thread and it's pointless to keep rehashing it.

you have rehashed everything else you felt was important from the thread. Wouldnt disproving christianity be an important thing to rehash?

lol

You say modern society has and when i say there isnt the proof you respond with this? Please let me know how it has?

preaching

not at all..as i said its the only logical conclusion. If christianity fades away then it was man made and your safe. But if it doesnt then it could mean your goign to be in trouble when you die. Not preaching in any sort of way

Bible contradiction #3: Has anyone ever seen God?Nobody has seen God: "No one has ever seen God ..." (John 1:18)Abram saw God: "When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless." (Gen. 17:1)Jacob saw God: "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." (Gen. 32:30)

I was gonna write it all out but this article does a great job of explaining it. and showing the necessity of knowing the original language as opposed to just the translated words. Plus it takes more verses into account so that you an understand the entirity of ithttp://www.tektonics.org/uz/visiblegod.html

[crowTrobot 2]

Wouldnt disproving christianity be an important thing to rehash?

if you were capable of objectively discussing the evidence it might be

You say modern society has and when i say there isnt the proof you respond with this? Please let me know how it has?

you don't think the teaching of mechanistic evolution and other god-free science in the classroom is undermining the future of fundamentalist christianity? you don't think intellectualism has created a trend away from fundamentalism in religion in general in 1st world countries? (although unfortunately the USA is lagging behind europe in that regard).

But if it doesnt then it could mean your goign to be in trouble when you die

preaching

[Mattnxtc 0]

if you were capable of objectively discussing the evidence it might be

still avoiding the issue. So lets recap. You felt it necessary to repost evolutionary topics for discussion but you claim to have empirical proof that christianity is false and you dont put it up for discussion? One might say you made a misstep on saying you had this proof.

you don't think the teaching of mechanistic evolution and other god-free science in the classroom is undermining the future of fundamentalist christianity? you don't think intellectualism has created a trend away from fundamentalism in religion in general in 1st world countries? (although unfortunately the USA is lagging behind europe in that regard).

Actually, no for a few reasons:1. christianity says that this is exactly what is to happen so nobody is really bothered by it2. It has caused christian apologetics to quit being lazy and to really debate in the secular forum. Some of the new up and coming apologetists are well versed in secular activities3. Its all a cycle with europe. They get lazy in their life but then a major event will occur that will bring them back to christianity. Italy has already had an uprising of people returning

preaching

nope merely a fact...If you are wrong your going to hell therefore you hope your not wrong...common sense...if you want to call it preaching then go for it

[Farnan 0]

Wait, wait, wait. The person who believes in God is asking for empirical proof that God doesn't exist? Whaaaaaaaaa?This is a FAITH. There is no proof. Either you believe or you don't.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Wait, wait, wait. The person who believes in God is asking for empirical proof that God doesn't exist? Whaaaaaaaaa?This is a FAITH. There is no proof. Either you believe or you don't.

see, I believe God exists...I have faith that I am correct but if you have some proof that proves He doesnt by all means share it. Life is definately easier not having to live up to God's standard. Nobody here is naive enough to believe something if there is proof that it is wrong. Thats just simple philosophy

[Farnan 0]

see, I believe God exists...I have faith that I am correct but if you have some proof that proves He doesnt by all means share it. Life is definately easier not having to live up to God's standard. Nobody here is naive enough to believe something if there is proof that it is wrong. Thats just simple philosophy

I believe in God too---but what form he/she/it takes is beyond you or me. Just because someone 2000 years ago wrote a book saying how it is, doesn't mean, to me, that it is true. There are several other books for different religions--and i don't see how some people can be right and others can be wrong---let alone force others to adhear to a particular view via legislative action.People have choices--and i believe the whole point is to be a good person and believe. I just can't understand how some jewish person who has done nothing but good all his life, etc., dies and whichever God actually exists says--NOPE, you're going to Hell because you were brought up to believe in the wrong religion. That is insane and irrational.And if you have to do what the Bible says to stay out of Hell--there's probably somewhere around 200 people in heaven---barely enough to have a decent poker tourney and most certainly the most boring place in the universe.

[crowTrobot 2]

still avoiding the issue. So lets recap. You felt it necessary to repost evolutionary topics for discussion but you claim to have empirical proof that christianity is false and you dont put it up for discussion? One might say you made a misstep on saying you had this proof.

you lost me again. nobody can disprove faith-based belief, and i'm not trying. all i'm arguing is that your belief IS faith-based and not supported by physical evidence. and the only thing i've re-posted on my own for discussion was the case against case for christ website. everything else i've posted has been in direct response to your nonsense.

Actually, no for a few reasons:1. christianity says that this is exactly what is to happen so nobody is really bothered by it2. It has caused christian apologetics to quit being lazy and to really debate in the secular forum. Some of the new up and coming apologetists are well versed in secular activities3. Its all a cycle with europe. They get lazy in their life but then a major event will occur that will bring them back to christianity. Italy has already had an uprising of people returning

1 and 2 support what i said. not sure where you are trying to go with those.on 3 it can't be viewed as a cycle because the direct CAUSE of the decline of christianity is the information age we are entering. it would take nothing short of global apocalypse (nuclear war, humanity decimated by comet impact etc) to reverse the trend.

...If you are wrong your going to hell therefore you hope your not wrong...

well i'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure i'm not wrong, so i don't ever think about being wrong at all. you should know that by now, so no need to waste time trying to appeal to my doubt.even if the christian god as presented in the bible DID exist, i would rather be in hell anyway, than in heaven with a god who created hell. i'm consigned to my fate either way lol. you should know that by now too.

[Mattnxtc 0]

you lost me again. nobody can disprove faith-based belief, and i'm not trying. all i'm arguing is that your belief IS faith-based and not supported by physical evidence.and the only thing i've re-posted on my own for discussion was the case against case for christ website. everything else i've posted has been in direct response to your nonsense.

i believe you said you had empirical evidence that disproves christianity..are you now saying you dont have it?

1 and 2 support what i said. not sure where you are trying to go with those.on 3 it can't be viewed as a cycle because the direct CAUSE of the decline of christianity is the information age we are entering. it would take nothing short of global apocalypse (nuclear war, humanity decimated by comet impact etc) to reverse the trend.

wishful thinking...Europe goes through the cycles...look at history

well i'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure i'm not wrong, so i don't ever think about being wrong at all. you should know that by now, so no need to waste time trying to appeal to my doubt.even if the christian god as presented in the bible DID exist, i would rather be in hell anyway, than in heaven with a god who created hell. i'm consigned to my fate either way lol. you should know that by now too.

haha...hell was created for people who disobeyed Him. is He supposed to just let you come to heaven after you have sinned? You cant have it both ways...sorryquite a bit of confidence considering science still cant explain a lot of things. Your life..your gamble

[crowTrobot 2]

i believe you said you had empirical evidence that disproves christianity..

no, i said you DON'T have empirical evidence that supports it. stop twisting my words.

wishful thinking...Europe goes through the cycles...look at history

historically specifics of belief just changed with whatever theocracy possessed the most power. now the information age is in power. this does not fit into any type of pattern, it is something different.

haha...hell was created for people who disobeyed Him. is He supposed to just let you come to heaven after you have sinned? You cant have it both ways...sorry

apparently you missed the part where i said i wouldn't want to go to heaven even if it existed.

quite a bit of confidence considering science still cant explain a lot of things.

since i'm talking specifically about the christian god, there is nothing about the bible or christianity that science doesn't have a god-free explanation for. faith is all you have.

[Mattnxtc 0]

since i'm talking specifically about the christian god, there is nothing about the bible or christianity that science doesn't have a god-free explanation for. faith is all you have.

please explain using science the creation of the universe

[crowTrobot 2]

please explain using science the creation of the universe

that has nothing to do specifically with christianity, since all religions have their own specific creation myth, most of them mutually exclusive. even if you think there is direct evidence that the universe was created (there isn't), that doesn't validate christianity. but since you asked, science has numerous theories that potentially explain the universe without invoking god - quantum fluxuation in a background leading to inflation, evolution through black holes, brane theory etc.you still think i'm trying to disprove what you believe through faith apparently. i'm not. again, my point is there is no physical evidence that you think supports your faith-based belief that science doesn't have a more sensible alternate explanation for. faith is all you have.

[Mattnxtc 0]

that has nothing to do specifically with christianity, since all religions have their own specific creation myth, most of them mutually exclusive. even if you think there is direct evidence that the universe was created (there isn't), that doesn't validate christianity. but since you asked, science has numerous theories that potentially explain the universe without invoking god - quantum fluxuation in a background leading to inflation, evolution through black holes, brane theory etc.you still think i'm trying to disprove what you believe through faith apparently. i'm not. again, my point is there is no physical evidence that you think supports your faith-based belief that science doesn't have a more sensible alternate explanation for. faith is all you have.

no evidence? Only thing in doubt over the NT are the miracles that Jesus performed. And since we both know science cant reproduce them it doesnt mean anything. Science needs to have constants and an environment in which these miracles could be reproduced. Since science cannot come up with something equal to God, science logically cannot compare

[crowTrobot 2]

Only thing in doubt over the NT are the miracles that Jesus performed.

no, everything that is not corroborated historically from other sources is in question, which is virtually everything critical to christian belief.

[Mattnxtc 0]

no, everything that is not corroborated historically from other sources is in question, which is virtually everything critical to christian belief.

maybe by you..not by any actual historians of worth

[crowTrobot 2]

maybe by you..not by any actual historians of worth

i like that "of worth" part. you are saying you are smarter than any secular scholar who questions the bible. must be nice.

[Mattnxtc 0]

i like that "of worth" part. you are saying you are smarter than any secular scholar who questions the bible. must be nice.

i was actually referring to secular historians..not those associated with christianity