Christian View Of Sex

[Mattnxtc 0]

Again I gotta disagree and I won't be able to post again until tomorrow. But I think this is wrong. I see tonnes of people who get married when they shouldn't, but according to the explanation you have given it would be okay for them to have sex. It is about what the commitment is in your heart, not what you do publicly or write down on a piece of paper. I also think that you're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Sex outside of marriage in a committed relationship has nothing to do with lust, it is about love, honesty, committment, etc. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree..not that I don't appreciate a good debate, but it really doesn't feel like either of us is going to be able to see it any other way. And I really do appreciate the threads that you have started in this section and I will try to contribute to them as much as I can.

Heres the problem with this logic. When you get married it is supposed to be forever. Unfortunately nowadays divorce rates are absurdly high b/c people do get married for dumb reasons. But again does the bible support this? No!!!! The bible makes it very clear you shouldnt leave your spouse. So your reasoning isnt biblical. Your reasoning is based on modern society and heck ill gladly admit modern society is messed up. I know your tryin to justify sex outside of marriage but I am sorry, You will never find a verse that helps you. You will find several verses that say flee immorality though. Unfortunately for you premarital sex falls under that category. Marriage isnt about more than a peice of paper. Its about declaring to God that you will be with this person forever. Its about declaring that you will glorify God with your spouse. Its about making a commitment. I am sorry but dating relationships do not carry the same wieght in anybodies eyes. Like I said i know from experience how fast a dating relationship can fall apart.

[poguemahone68 0]

[Loismustdie 0]

That might be the most ignorant thing I have read in a long time.

Alot of brilliant men were initially called ignorant and crazy. I am in good company.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

before i became a Christan i was not a good person.i was having sex with more than one girl over about 2 years. i am so glad that God came to save me. i now have to live with this for the rest of my life that i lost my virginity at the age of 14. God will never forget it but he has fogiven me.But still its like this huge weight on my shoulders

[Jimshoen 0]

A comparison of 41 autopsied brains has revealed a distinct differencebetween homosexual and heterosexual men in the brain region that controlssexual behavior. The finding supports a theory that biological factorsunderlie sexual orientation, although it remains unclear whether theanatomical variation represents a cause or result of homosexuality, saysneurobiologist Simon Levay, who describes the study in the Aug. 30_Science_.

You mean we can't control our behavior - our brain chemistry runs the show and we can't do anything about it?

[KrazyKarl910 0]

Wow... Mattnxtc, your holier than though attitude disgusts me. People who call themselves Christian but really aren't give God a bad name.Before I get onto the homosexuality bit... did you know that the bible implies that the world is flat and that the earth is the centre of the universe? The people that went against these theories that those with brains now understand to be true were considered heretics? They went against the teachings of God in the Bible and they were right.The bible is a great book, but it is hardly infallible. It was written by men in an unenlightened day and age. Think back to what still hadn't been invented at the time? Think where science was at. The writers of the bible were great people, they were teaching those that followed them what they knew of God. You seem to be completely forgetting the human element to Christianity. You seem to forget Jesus complelely as well... I don't think you've mentioned him yet? You know... Christ... the one that died for our sins so that we may live with God?For arguments sake we'll say that homosexuality is a sin (which I definitely question)... You told the girl on the first page (forgot her name) that she will have to face up to God for her sins? As will you for your list of sins which I'm sure is of similar length (with you being human and all).You forget the best bits of the Gospels... the whole dying for our sins bit... he takes the fall for our imperfectness.As for it actually being a sin... the commandment that Jesus gave was to love one another as he has loved us. This is the greatest commandment of all.How can a monogomous, committed, loving relationship between two consenting adults of the same sex be going against this? As someone said, where is the victim?I don't know why I'm bothering at all, because you clearly won't even give this a seconds thought, but hopefully someone reading does...

[Mattnxtc 0]

Wow... Mattnxtc, your holier than though attitude disgusts me. People who call themselves Christian but really aren't give God a bad name.Before I get onto the homosexuality bit... did you know that the bible implies that the world is flat and that the earth is the centre of the universe? The people that went against these theories that those with brains now understand to be true were considered heretics? They went against the teachings of God in the Bible and they were right.The bible is a great book, but it is hardly infallible. It was written by men in an unenlightened day and age. Think back to what still hadn't been invented at the time? Think where science was at. The writers of the bible were great people, they were teaching those that followed them what they knew of God. You seem to be completely forgetting the human element to Christianity. You seem to forget Jesus complelely as well... I don't think you've mentioned him yet? You know... Christ... the one that died for our sins so that we may live with God?For arguments sake we'll say that homosexuality is a sin (which I definitely question)... You told the girl on the first page (forgot her name) that she will have to face up to God for her sins? As will you for your list of sins which I'm sure is of similar length (with you being human and all).You forget the best bits of the Gospels... the whole dying for our sins bit... he takes the fall for our imperfectness.As for it actually being a sin... the commandment that Jesus gave was to love one another as he has loved us. This is the greatest commandment of all.How can a monogomous, committed, loving relationship between two consenting adults of the same sex be going against this? As someone said, where is the victim?I don't know why I'm bothering at all, because you clearly won't even give this a seconds thought, but hopefully someone reading does...

Thought this was an interesting post so i thought i would respond to it:1. what "holier than though" attitude do I have? I posted this a while ago and it was a look at what the bible says about sex/ homosexuality and so forth. If you notice, any claim I made was backed by the bible with multiple verses. I am sorry if you disagree with me but I do have the bible on my side2. The bible does not say the earth is flat (and in fact many have/will argue that the bible makes the claim that the earth is not flat) Center of the universe is another nonsense claim. (not tryin to be rude so dont read it in that matter)3. Yes humans are stupid. The church for some odd reason did stupid things. Often you have people who do things "they think" are right. Look at the crusades. No way Jesus/God would ever approve that crap but they were done in their name werent they? Humans in their eagerness do dumb things. Dont blame the bible when its usually somebodies fault for oversteppin the bible4. Homosexuality according to the bible is a sin. That is very clear. Whether you choose to agree/disagree with that is your own problem. 5. You are correct, we all stand for our sins, myself included. I have never claimed to be "perfect" and I would be scared as anything if I had to be judged off my sins. I will freely admit that i sin everyday, that i struggle with tons of issues and that i dont like what the bible has to say on issues. There is a difference though that exists between a christian and a nonbeliever. A christians sins are paid for by the blood of Jesus. "All who believe will be saved". So when a christian stands before God he is deemed "righteous". When a nonchristian stands before God he is judged on his sins and he will not be foudn righteous. now this isnt my claim. The bible again backs up this. 5. Did i forget the best parts of the gospel? How is most of it relevant to a talk about sex? There are other threads related to other parts of the bible and im sure plenty of people here would be willing to discuss any part of the bible that you want to discuss, but again, this thread was about sex from a sin standpoint and well a lot of the bible isnt relevant. 6. As for your comments about same sex relations. I am sorry agian but the bible is clear on it. You try to include the "love others as He loved us" but to try to combine those two causes contradictions in the bible that show that it isnt correct. There is a bunch of discussion in the bible about sexual immorality. So using your reasoning that arent compatible. Thats beside the fact that Jesus never meant that to be used to justify sexual relations. Also notice that Jesus never said anyting about the rule of killing homosexuals (not advocating it, just stating it). The bible is clear on homosexuality as not be right.7. Finally if you really want to get down to it, you would be hurting God. Why? b/c you would be openly sinning. this thread was never meant to focus on homosexuality, it came up so I and others gave biblical views on it. I am sorry if people disagree with it but the reality is that from a biblical standpiont it is a sin.

[Petoria 0]

before i became a Christan i was not a good person.i was having sex with more than one girl over about 2 years. i am so glad that God came to save me. i now have to live with this for the rest of my life that i lost my virginity at the age of 14. God will never forget it but he has fogiven me.But still its like this huge weight on my shoulders

This attitude is a huge problem that I have with Christianity. If this isn't fear-based faith, I dont know what is.I actually do feel sorry for you, Dan.

[custom36 4]

Alot of brilliant men were initially called ignorant and crazy. I am in good company.

BahahahahahaYou've lost any credibility you had in my mind.

[custom36 4]

It is my assertion that the bible says that homosexual acts are sinful which implies that science will not find anything to support your theory. It would be my assertion that morally we "know" that it isnt correct as you said, you inherently knew it was wrong. I could use the example of a mule, we know that this isnt a natural animal as we see the unnatural act done to create it. Just as homosexuality is the creation of an unnatural act

I hope this was proven wrong later in the thread, but in case it wasn't...- We don't inherently "know" that homosexuality is morally wrong. Before I ever knew I was bisexual, I was 100% for gay rights and of the belief that God loves homosexuals as much as heterosexuals. I've never believed it was morally wrong. Most, if not all, of those who believe homosexuality was morally wrong are those that are taught that it is morally wrong. It's prejudice and discrimination. You're not (I assume) of the belief that blacks and women are inferior. But, 75 years ago, most white males were. Why? Because they were taught that.- The mule IS a natural animal. It's a product of nature. There was no unnatural act done to create it.- Homosexuality is the creation of an unnatural act? There are actually 2 arguments to dispell the myth that homosexuality is unnatural. The first is that it happens in nature. All animals have homosexuality. Every single one. There was a study done with storks a while back where they gave eggs to a lesbian couple and a gay male couple. Both raised their young with the same success as a heterosexual couple. Without getting into adoption or anything like that, this is an example of natural homosexuality. Secondly, I'm going to put this in white because it's probably NSFW and could gross some people out, When a man engages in anal sex, the penis fits pretty well in the anus. Also, there is an "a-spot" in a man's anus that's connected to the testicles. Reaching this spot, in the same way as a g-spot with girls, can cause an orgasm.

[KrazyKarl910 0]

Thought this was an interesting post so i thought i would respond to it:1. what "holier than though" attitude do I have? I posted this a while ago and it was a look at what the bible says about sex/ homosexuality and so forth. If you notice, any claim I made was backed by the bible with multiple verses. I am sorry if you disagree with me but I do have the bible on my side

I'm not talking about your first post... the way you go on about sin and you told that girl that she would face God for her sin is holier than though... you followed it up by saying you weren't judging, but you clearly were...

2. The bible does not say the earth is flat (and in fact many have/will argue that the bible makes the claim that the earth is not flat) Center of the universe is another nonsense claim. (not tryin to be rude so dont read it in that matter)

Well then why was Gallileo considered a heretic?

3. Yes humans are stupid. The church for some odd reason did stupid things. Often you have people who do things "they think" are right. Look at the crusades. No way Jesus/God would ever approve that crap but they were done in their name werent they? Humans in their eagerness do dumb things. Dont blame the bible when its usually somebodies fault for oversteppin the bible

I'm not blaming the bible... I'm blaming the people who miss the point of the bible, same thing with the fundamentalist muslim people who use the Koran to defend themselves. People get caught up in the wrong things...

4. Homosexuality according to the bible is a sin. That is very clear. Whether you choose to agree/disagree with that is your own problem.

You completely ignored what I had to say here... completely ignored my stance on the bible, didn't even give it a moments consideration...

5. You are correct, we all stand for our sins, myself included. I have never claimed to be "perfect" and I would be scared as anything if I had to be judged off my sins. I will freely admit that i sin everyday, that i struggle with tons of issues and that i dont like what the bible has to say on issues. There is a difference though that exists between a christian and a nonbeliever. A christians sins are paid for by the blood of Jesus. "All who believe will be saved". So when a christian stands before God he is deemed "righteous". When a nonchristian stands before God he is judged on his sins and he will not be foudn righteous. now this isnt my claim. The bible again backs up this.

Well she pretty plainly said she was a Christian, yet you as good as implied that she was hellbound...

5. Did i forget the best parts of the gospel? How is most of it relevant to a talk about sex? There are other threads related to other parts of the bible and im sure plenty of people here would be willing to discuss any part of the bible that you want to discuss, but again, this thread was about sex from a sin standpoint and well a lot of the bible isnt relevant.

Whenever someone starts to quote some of the ridiculous stuff in Leviticus (stoned anyone lately?) the immediate reaction here is that you need to take the bible as a whole. Isn't that what I'm doing... pretty much saying that although it says this bit, it also says this... Or am I to take it that you have never touched a woman in her period of menstruation (by the way... did you know that menstruation is a sin?), and that you go around your local shops and start throwing rocks every sunday?

6. As for your comments about same sex relations. I am sorry agian but the bible is clear on it. You try to include the "love others as He loved us" but to try to combine those two causes contradictions in the bible that show that it isnt correct. There is a bunch of discussion in the bible about sexual immorality. So using your reasoning that arent compatible. Thats beside the fact that Jesus never meant that to be used to justify sexual relations. Also notice that Jesus never said anyting about the rule of killing homosexuals (not advocating it, just stating it). The bible is clear on homosexuality as not be right.

It isn't being used to justify sexual relations... it is being used to say "where is the sin in that?"I can't believe I'm still doing this... I know you won't budge from your position squarely behind your bible and actually think... open your mind man...

7. Finally if you really want to get down to it, you would be hurting God. Why? b/c you would be openly sinning. this thread was never meant to focus on homosexuality, it came up so I and others gave biblical views on it. I am sorry if people disagree with it but the reality is that from a biblical standpiont it is a sin.

Isn't that a circular argument? You are sinning because you are sinning...Actually start to use your brain that God gave you... for complex thought, and don't just believe everything you read. To follow blindly is dangerous

[Loismustdie 0]

BahahahahahaYou've lost any credibility you had in my mind.

Man, I posted that a long time ago. It was a joke too. I've lost credibility? What, because of my stance on homosexuality? I can live with that.

[custom36 4]

Man, I posted that a long time ago. It was a joke too. I've lost credibility? What, because of my stance on homosexuality? I can live with that.

No.You're dillusional.DYSW?

[DonkSlayer 1]

You guys are all beating your heads against the wall .You're speaking of different Gods. Custom, et all have a God incompatible with literal scripture. Mattnx, etc, believe in a God represented by a relatively literal reading.So, no, Custom, God to you would not have a monogamous homosexual relationship be a sin. Matt's would. Ok. If one asks Matt, "How can your God..."He answers "Because..." but if you don't believe in the basis of that "because", then you're not getting anywhere.You're all debating on an issue coming from a different foundation. To have an effective debate about the nature of an apple, you must agree at the foundation that the fruit is in fact an apple....one debater cannot hold and orange and the other hold a banana.It's good to have your faith challenged, but if everyone's faith has been adequately challenged and no more progress has been made, let's start a new thread instead of beating this one to death.

[custom36 4]

You guys are all beating your heads against the wall .

Determining what is and isn't natural has no basis on what our concept of God is. By eliminating one argument used against homosexuality, it weakens the case against it. "Homosexuality is not natural" is not a valid argument and providing him with reasons that it is not valid is absolutely neccessary. If the only reason against homosexuality is a couple of verses in one version of a holy book, then those that support the rights of homosexuals have proven their case and the only debate remaining will then be among religious scholars on religious grounds.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Determining what is and isn't natural has no basis on what our concept of God is. By eliminating one argument used against homosexuality, it weakens the case against it. "Homosexuality is not natural" is not a valid argument and providing him with reasons that it is not valid is absolutely neccessary. If the only reason against homosexuality is a couple of verses in one version of a holy book, then those that support the rights of homosexuals have proven their case and the only debate remaining will then be among religious scholars on religious grounds.

To whom? Those who don't believe in that holy book didn't need you to convince them of any moral/relgious "OK" in the first place, and those who believe it as "truth" believe that it is therefore proven that homosexuality is unnatural and wrong. If something is held to be true in only one statement in one book in the entire world, but a person holds what that book says to be true beyond any wordly doubt, then you really aren't going to "prove" anything to them without using that book in the same way they do, correct?

[Mattnxtc 0]

I'm not talking about your first post... the way you go on about sin and you told that girl that she would face God for her sin is holier than though... you followed it up by saying you weren't judging, but you clearly were...

How is that judging? Is she not going to stand judgement for her sins? Thats just a fact. Do all people stand judgement? yes. Not judging just a fact

Well then why was Gallileo considered a heretic?

b/c people are stupid basically

You completely ignored what I had to say here... completely ignored my stance on the bible, didn't even give it a moments consideration...

and ur stance was? I know u disagree but that doesnt change the bible does it? Your stance really isnt relevant to a discussion about the bible if it contradicts the bible isnt it? You cant take a stance opposite of the bible and claim it to be biblical.

I'm not blaming the bible... I'm blaming the people who miss the point of the bible, same thing with the fundamentalist muslim people who use the Koran to defend themselves. People get caught up in the wrong things...

ok but this still isnt relevant to the bible. bible says homosexual acts are a sin. it really cant be clearer. Now if u wanted to argue people that want to kill homosexuals in the name of God are stupid then yes u would have a case. But to argue homosexuality is alright by the bible is wrong.

Well she pretty plainly said she was a Christian, yet you as good as implied that she was hellbound...

i dotn recall her sayin she was a christian. And as a christian you should be willing to piont out to others sins you see.

Whenever someone starts to quote some of the ridiculous stuff in Leviticus (stoned anyone lately?) the immediate reaction here is that you need to take the bible as a whole. Isn't that what I'm doing... pretty much saying that although it says this bit, it also says this... Or am I to take it that you have never touched a woman in her period of menstruation (by the way... did you know that menstruation is a sin?), and that you go around your local shops and start throwing rocks every sunday?

now ur just rambling. bible makes it clear. homosexuality is a sin. Its not a grey area of the bible. its a very black and white situation.

It isn't being used to justify sexual relations... it is being used to say "where is the sin in that?"I can't believe I'm still doing this... I know you won't budge from your position squarely behind your bible and actually think... open your mind man...

where is the sin? the sin is that, as a christian we are told to avoid homosexual acts. thats where teh sin is. You are tryin to justify something that cannot stand up. using your reasoning you cause a contradiction in the bible. Yes we are called to love all but we are also called to not partake in homosexual acts. You want to only use the first and not use the second. i am sorry but you cant do that.

Isn't that a circular argument? You are sinning because you are sinning...Actually start to use your brain that God gave you... for complex thought, and don't just believe everything you read. To follow blindly is dangerous

no. You asked who it was hurting. and it is hurting God/jesus for sinning when you know its wrong. And please quit tryin to act like your some genius over there. You arguments really have no substance b/c you attempt to avoid using the whole bible and instead want to just pick and choose. You cant do that and when you realize that you will see how wrong you are

[KrazyKarl910 0]

The bible makes it clear just like it does the stoning thing mate... in fact one of the main mentions that people quote is in the same section of the bible as all the other silly things... so I ask again, stoned anyone lately?

[custom36 4]

The bible makes it clear just like it does the stoning thing mate... in fact one of the main mentions that people quote is in the same section of the bible as all the other silly things... so I ask again, stoned anyone lately?

FWIW, getting stoned and being stoned are 2 very different things.

[Jordan 1]

I read the first 5-6 pages or so, then skimmed the rest.I think arguing over homosexuality is silly.I'm a Christian, raised, and struggled with my personal beliefs for a while. More recently I really have accepted Christ and have been working towards living a life that honors God.I don't believe it's a Christians job to tell people they are sinning and to convince them of their wrong doings...as a few poster have mentioned before.In my limited knowledge, I try to see Jesus for what he did for the sinners of his day. Jesus 'despised' the pharisees and the Saducees (spelling) people. These were the "elites" of the religious movement of their time, yet these people were the furthest from what God was and what Jesus stood for.Jesus embraced the "sinners" and low lifes of his time not because they were wrong but because they were the ones who needed help, love, and if they wanted, which most did, a change of heart and beliefs.I truly think if you are really a Christian and really are trying to follow God that you won't worry about other people's homosexuality or "sins", but will focus on your own and through your life try to show God's love for his creation. Not one man will ever argue another's life into a true Christian relationship. It just doesn't happen.It takes a personal desire, want, and belief to be a Christian. Arguing over the semantics of a bible verse here and there isn't what it's about, I believe. It's making a difference in the lives of others, and through that, hopefully they will look at their own lives and come to their own choice.I believe in free will, and with homosexuality, I really don't know. But I don't think it's up for me to argue. I look at my relationship and belief with God and His Word and then I deal with my conscience in relation to that.Convincing someone else is not an answer, on the topic of homosexuality, or anything else. You can show them the door, but they have to open it for themselves.Done rambling.- Jordan

[KrazyKarl910 0]

What a wonderful post from a clearly insightful person. Thank you for saying what I couldn't!

[Farnan 0]

I wish more Christians who think like Jordan would voice their beliefs. Sometimes it is the crazies who drown out the rational folks. It is nice to know there ARE Christians out there who concentrate on the good attributes of religion rather than shine a bright light on the bad.

[Loismustdie 0]

I read the first 5-6 pages or so, then skimmed the rest.I think arguing over homosexuality is silly.I'm a Christian, raised, and struggled with my personal beliefs for a while. More recently I really have accepted Christ and have been working towards living a life that honors God.I don't believe it's a Christians job to tell people they are sinning and to convince them of their wrong doings...as a few poster have mentioned before.In my limited knowledge, I try to see Jesus for what he did for the sinners of his day. Jesus 'despised' the pharisees and the Saducees (spelling) people. These were the "elites" of the religious movement of their time, yet these people were the furthest from what God was and what Jesus stood for.Jesus embraced the "sinners" and low lifes of his time not because they were wrong but because they were the ones who needed help, love, and if they wanted, which most did, a change of heart and beliefs.I truly think if you are really a Christian and really are trying to follow God that you won't worry about other people's homosexuality or "sins", but will focus on your own and through your life try to show God's love for his creation. Not one man will ever argue another's life into a true Christian relationship. It just doesn't happen.It takes a personal desire, want, and belief to be a Christian. Arguing over the semantics of a bible verse here and there isn't what it's about, I believe. It's making a difference in the lives of others, and through that, hopefully they will look at their own lives and come to their own choice.I believe in free will, and with homosexuality, I really don't know. But I don't think it's up for me to argue. I look at my relationship and belief with God and His Word and then I deal with my conscience in relation to that.Convincing someone else is not an answer, on the topic of homosexuality, or anything else. You can show them the door, but they have to open it for themselves.Done rambling.- Jordan

Good post, although really the argument is sort of silly- God says no sin will enter into heaven. The sin doesn't matter- it could be anything that falls within that realm, if you continue in that state you cannot enter the gates of heaven, period. Homosexuality, in Gods eyes, biblically is a sin. I am a womanizer- always have been. I was born that way, my father was and his father before him. It's wrong, I no longer delve into these things, but I am still that guy. I love booty, period. It is my job as a christian to resist these urges. What makes a man who desires men any different? In gods eyes, absolutely nothing.