Jump to content

Christian View Of Sex


Recommended Posts

Asking a self-declared homosexual or bisexual to resist the urges of homosexuality is like asking a Mexican to resist the urge to have dark skin.
2nd.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 147
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Few comments and then im done with the discussion on homosexuality1. The thread was initially meant to be on sex not homosexuality. Sex is much more ambiguous in terms of christianity as opposed to homosexuality. I never meant for the thread to get off topic as I was just tryin to have a normal conversation with nikki...maybe i should have seen the direction it was going to lead and avoided bringing it there2. From the bible homosexuality is a sin. There really isnt anyway around it. I knwo many people have attempted to justify it but from the bible it is a sin and God will judge you according to this. We as christians have been called to let nonbeleivers know that they are sinning and will be judged accordingly. I am sorry if you disagree with this but you can take it up with God when you see Him3. This arent personal views. I have seen already that christians are being called homophoebs and so forth. And while that could be true of some people i have not seen it out of anybody yet on this site. So far I have seen people tryin to justify this and that and the problem is that we are obeying God's laws and unfortunately that trumps everything else. Nobody has said they have anything but love for homosexuals. That we would share the gospel with them same as any other person. If you sin you go to hell..its really that simple. Its not personal though i have seen personal attacks being thrown

Link to post
Share on other sites
Few comments and then im done with the discussion on homosexuality1. The thread was initially meant to be on sex not homosexuality. Sex is much more ambiguous in terms of christianity as opposed to homosexuality. I never meant for the thread to get off topic as I was just tryin to have a normal conversation with nikki...maybe i should have seen the direction it was going to lead and avoided bringing it thereI actually find this to be one of the most interesting sex-related topics where Christians and I disagree, so I'm glad it went here 2. From the bible homosexuality is a sin. There really isnt anyway around it. I knwo many people have attempted to justify it but from the bible it is a sin and God will judge you according to this. We as christians have been called to let nonbeleivers know that they are sinning and will be judged accordingly. I am sorry if you disagree with this but you can take it up with God when you see Himwell, you disagree with a few of us as to how ingrained homosexuality is. that's fine - wouldn't be the first time christianity disagreed with science of course.but i think it brings about the question, do you believe that the bible is the perfect, written word of God? Do you believe the Bible is just God's word, written in a way that we understand? 3. This arent personal views. I have seen already that christians are being called homophoebs and so forth. And while that could be true of some people i have not seen it out of anybody yet on this site. So far I have seen people tryin to justify this and that and the problem is that we are obeying God's laws and unfortunately that trumps everything else. Nobody has said they have anything but love for homosexuals. That we would share the gospel with them same as any other person. If you sin you go to hell..its really that simple. Its not personal though i have seen personal attacks being thrownmeh, i think it stems from christian's "belief" that homosexuality is a choice, which implies the very thing that some of us are trying to disprove. it really is a choice of whether you put your faith in a very old book, written by a Perfect Creator, or modern science. easy choice for most of us, even though it may not be the same.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the post Matt, interesting stuff.I, for one, know that God does not want me to have sex. He proves that every weekend when I try.
Shake, you crack me up. Now, a question for Matt. What constitutes a defiled marriage bed? Scriptually, that is. And what about oral sex, what does the bible have to say on that subject?
Link to post
Share on other sites
Asking a self-declared homosexual or bisexual to resist the urges of homosexuality is like asking a Mexican to resist the urge to have dark skin.
That doesn't excuse it. Look, Matt and I don't agree on much but this is one where he is right on- homosexuality isn't even natural, in terms of the "sex" that can be had, and at it's core is just two dudes or two women commiting nasty unclean acts, not what God intended at all. That being said, do what you like. I have friends who are gay, and they know where I stand. Most of them even can see and agree that biblically, it's wrong.In my mind though it's like any other sin that anybody has a hard time with, so I am in no position to lord it over them because I have my own issues. How does one become homosexual? I think it starts young, and it goes something like this- it starts with the parents, pure and simple. A child left alone will bring his mother to shame. Children left alone will explore there bodies in ways God never meant, and will continue to do so- it feels good!! They will hide it, for the most part, whether it's masturbation or " playing doctor" inately they know it's wrong. So, what happens? Well, lets say a child messes with himself from the age of 3 on up, whatever he pleases, what happens to his mind, if he is let go far enough? He starts desiring what he knows, which is his own parts- he seeks out others like him, and the natural at that point has been taken over and become something else, and it is near impossible to change. Possible, but near impossible. It's like a mental switch has been thrown, and that type of decadence is not easily forgotten by the flesh. This is, of course, a theory, not a teaching, but different gays and lesbians that I have talked to admit, with some reluctance, it's possible, because that's kind of, sort of, what happened. The easy thing to do is say," Well, I was born this way," and let science take over from there, and it will find a theory to make them feel better, just like it will for other people who have twisted themselves through sin. At some point, the mind is effected by sin, pure and simple, and if your lucky you don't damage yourself so bad that it's too late.
God is only love, nothing else. Love has nothing to do with killing people.Therefore, the bible is contradicting itself.
Bears get hungry, who are to deny them some tasty children? Seriously, put yourself in the bears shoes, or paws if you will- it's an immense opportunity. Matt, I know we go back and forth and I have said before that I do respect you, an denjoy are back and forths. Arguing with this guy though is beyond pointless.
see no there is a difference...You should want to be with your husband. Bible makes it very clear that you and yoru husband are fine in that. But to sit there and lust about future events is completely different. It is very different with how your relationship is with yoru husband as to with someone else. With your husband you can act on your feelings. If you feel like yuou want to do something wit him. Do it!!! its not a big dealbut to sit there and lust after another guy/girl who you arent married to is wrong. Why? b/c you arent married to them. According to the Bible yall shouldnt ever be together. Do you see the difference? As a side note, not that it pertains to you specifically which is why i waited till now to put it in...masturbation/pornography isnt ok ever..Not even if it is about ur significant other.
To go one step further, it basically says that that lust for another partner is as bad as taking another. Why? Because it messes with your head, and you started needing that desire for another to even be with what is yours. I'm not talking about dressing up as Robin Hood and Maid Marian, I am talking about the point where, " Well, I want to have sex but I really want to have it with this person, " and then in your mind you just imagine that. It's a betrayal all it's own that alot of people just accept.
Nikki, sounds like you're struggling a bit.The question is not whether you are sinning, you know you are.The question is not whether you're "screwed", because you're not.The question is whether at some point, before you pass, you can repent. The most pious man/woman sins their face off every day, and nobody can get into heaven without God's grace. From listening to you, I don't think you're quite as lost as it seems. GL
If she continues on this path she is most definitely screwed, and that is O.K. Half the battle is being able to realize that, then it's about changing it. It's good that she is even open to questioning herself, it's a sign that she is not too far gone.
So you are saying that scripturally God expects us to be heterosexual. I think this is what Paul is getting at, but I'm just not that way. When you say, "what else could we do?" you are coming from a completely heterosexual perspective. I'm not heterosexual, and God made me who I am. This is the dilemma I face when Paul's letter's to the people of Corinth are discussed.
If you were honest with yourself you can probably trace back whre it all started. And let me reiterate, be what you want, but I am never going to not be as honest as possible when it comes to biblical point of view on issues, I just can't do it.
Link to post
Share on other sites
That doesn't excuse it. Look, Matt and I don't agree on much but this is one where he is right on- homosexuality isn't even natural, in terms of the "sex" that can be had, and at it's core is just two dudes or two women commiting nasty unclean acts, not what God intended at all. How does one become homosexual? I think it starts young, and it goes something like this- it starts with the parents, pure and simple. A child left alone will bring his mother to shame. Children left alone will explore there bodies in ways God never meant, and will continue to do so- it feels good!! They will hide it, for the most part, whether it's masturbation or " playing doctor" inately they know it's wrong. So, what happens? Well, lets say a child messes with himself from the age of 3 on up, whatever he pleases, what happens to his mind, if he is let go far enough? He starts desiring what he knows, which is his own parts- he seeks out others like him, and the natural at that point has been taken over and become something else, and it is near impossible to change. Possible, but near impossible. It's like a mental switch has been thrown, and that type of decadence is not easily forgotten by the flesh.
I think you're off the mark on this one....at least, once we leave scripture behind. I don't think you can go so far to say that homosexuality is not natural when it is often observable in animals. If animals are doing it, then it's natural. Am I wrong? Or is this just the fault of penguins playing doctor while the parents aren't watching?
Link to post
Share on other sites
That doesn't excuse it. Look, Matt and I don't agree on much but this is one where he is right on- homosexuality isn't even natural, in terms of the "sex" that can be had, and at it's core is just two dudes or two women commiting nasty unclean acts, not what God intended at all.
Are those acts nasty and unclean because they cannot produce a child? Because really they are very similar to the acts which married couples engage in....
I have friends who are gay, and they know where I stand. Most of them even can see and agree that biblically, it's wrong.
Is the bible infallible? Please laugh at me if this is a ridiculous question, but isn't it possible that at least SOME of the bible has been changed over time, through translation, changing social percpectives, etc, and that some of the passages on morality etc are no longer applicable? Is slavery strictly denounced in the bible?
This is, of course, a theory, not a teaching, but different gays and lesbians that I have talked to admit, with some reluctance, it's possible, because that's kind of, sort of, what happened.
A few people who you have talked to reluctantly admitted that your theory is in fact possible....I have a theory that cats can understand the entire English language. I would have an easy time convincing a few people that this theory is technically plausible. This does not make it a good theory.
If you were honest with yourself you can probably trace back whre it all started.
A homosexual adult may be able to trace homosexual tendencies back to childhood, but all this shows is that they have been homosexual since childhood. Seriously, check out some twin studies (if you want to hear an argument against your stance). Twins, even identical twins bred in the same house, even the same ROOM, will sometimes have differing sexual preferences, and these preferences can be observed as early as childhood.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you're off the mark on this one....at least, once we leave scripture behind. I don't think you can go so far to say that homosexuality is not natural when it is often observable in animals. If animals are doing it, then it's natural. Am I wrong? Or is this just the fault of penguins playing doctor while the parents aren't watching?
We are not animals. I'm not even sure how to address this one. It is not natural to put ones Penis where in ones anus, too put it as bluntly as possible. It just isn't, it's not even bulit with the elasticity to take that kind of abuse, which is what it is- abuse. So, , let's tackle oral now- what makes that O.K.? Biblically, we see alot of talk about love- going down on someone isn't so much about love as it is about being serviced, it's more of an act that indicates a detachment from someone rather than an attachment.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Are those acts nasty and unclean because they cannot produce a child? Because really they are very similar to the acts which married couples engage in....Is the bible infallible? Please laugh at me if this is a ridiculous question, but isn't it possible that at least SOME of the bible has been changed over time, through translation, changing social percpectives, etc, and that some of the passages on morality etc are no longer applicable? Is slavery strictly denounced in the bible?A few people who you have talked to reluctantly admitted that your theory is in fact possible....I have a theory that cats can understand the entire English language. I would have an easy time convincing a few people that this theory is technically plausible. This does not make it a good theory. A homosexual adult may be able to trace homosexual tendencies back to childhood, but all this shows is that they have been homosexual since childhood. Seriously, check out some twin studies (if you want to hear an argument against your stance). Twins, even identical twins bred in the same house, even the same ROOM, will sometimes have differing sexual preferences, and these preferences can be observed as early as childhood.
Thats alot to answer Tim and I will start with this- it's a theory, and as good as any I have ever heard. To be honest, I don't even personally NEED to address it, I mean when it comes to this issue Bible is very clear, and it's not too hard too look at it and just go " Gross. " But, that would be dismissive and I can't stand that. What are homosexual tendencies? Shopping? Decorating? Gardening with mom? No, any straight man can do these things and still want to be with the opposite sex. No child wants to have sex with anybody, it's something that develops, our sex drive grows over time. I am just saying that factors that are thrown in at a young age could possibly warp it. Abuse, whatever. Then, when a young adult, 13,14 looks at himself in the mirror and goes,"Man, truth is I want Tim, sexy man boy." At that point he has no idea what he actually wanted at a young age, just what he did to get to that point. Society then steps in and says that he is strange, and he is fearful of this, and the only answer he has is, " I was always this way!" And, as far as he is concerned this is very true, but is it really? I have a hard time believing that God would create something tottaly against the natural order of things, so then I have to deduce that in fact man created it himself. As far as the things married couples do, well, I agree that married couples do some pretty nasty stuff. That is not what God intended, not at all. I will give you a personal view on this- I don't like oral sex. Now, don't get me wrong, I like it, but I don't like what it is- it is just flat out my wife servicing me, nothing more, nothing less, it's not lovemaking, and to me when it comes to our realtionship it's not good enough for HER- she deserves better than that. Thank God that is something that we see eye to eye on. You know, I just might be a bit to open in this forum. LOL. Oh,well, I love a good discussion.
Link to post
Share on other sites
"Man, truth is I want Tim, sexy man boy."
Ok nowwwwwww you're freaking me out a little. lol
I will give you a personal view on this- I don't like oral sex. Now, don't get me wrong, I like it...
hahaI certainly respect your view that sex should just be sex, but I think you should consider the possibility that some peoples brains are just wired differently, and for them "clean, pure" sex is with somebody of their own gender.My girlfriend's sister is gay, and, from what I've been told, she was often sad or distant growing up, especially as a teenager. When she became an adult and realized that she is gay, she became a happier person, and is much closer with her family (who DON'T come from a background where homosexuality is accepted).
Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok nowwwwwww you're freaking me out a little. lol hahaI certainly respect your view that sex should just be sex, but I think you should consider the possibility that some peoples brains are just wired differently, and for them "clean, pure" sex is with somebody of their own gender.My girlfriend's sister is gay, and, from what I've been told, she was often sad or distant growing up, especially as a teenager. When she became an adult and realized that she is gay, she became a happier person, and is much closer with her family (who DON'T come from a background where homosexuality is accepted).
I suppose I could consider the possibility that some peoples brains are wired differently- as a matter of fact I said that, I believe that sometimes the things that we do can in fact change the chemical makeup of our brains, and we cannot be anything eles at that point. That doesn't make it acceptable in Gods eyes, its still wrong. Heck, if my theory is correct than your description of your sisters friend is right on target.
Link to post
Share on other sites
We are not animals. I'm not even sure how to address this one.
We aren't animals? I'm not sure how to tackle this one either. Regardless of man being animal (which they are...no two ways about it), my point still stands.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just to get something straight, Catholics don't believe in the use of birth control correct? But other denominations of Christianity can still use condemns? Just trying to figure out general info.
Catholics dont believe in it at all...that is correct...Christians are forbidden from it as far as I know...i could be wrong though. But premarital sex is a definite no
Link to post
Share on other sites
Catholics dont believe in it at all...that is correct...Christians are forbidden from it as far as I know...i could be wrong though. But premarital sex is a definite no
Fair enough. I wasn't aware that all Christians were forbidden from birth control use of all kinds. I guess I only thought that Catholics forbade all that and that certain things like condemns were still okay for other denominations.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair enough. I wasn't aware that all Christians were forbidden from birth control use of all kinds. I guess I only thought that Catholics forbade all that and that certain things like condemns were still okay for other denominations.
oops...thats my fault swift...i wasnt thinkin when i typed it...it shoudl read"Catholics dont believe in it at all...that is correct...Christians arent forbidden from it as far as I know...i could be wrong though. But premarital sex is a definite no"I am sorry for that mixup..i didnt read over what i wrote.
Link to post
Share on other sites
We aren't animals? I'm not sure how to tackle this one either. Regardless of man being animal (which they are...no two ways about it), my point still stands.
Yeah, your point I dealt with. Animals, in terms of what we are physically, yes, but mentally so much more than that, and if you can't see that then I can't help you.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for not reading the whole topic if someone's already brought it up, but do a lot of you think God never gets angry? I think there are several case in points, like the market at the temple

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry for not reading the whole topic if someone's already brought it up, but do a lot of you think God never gets angry? I think there are several case in points, like the market at the temple
this one is more about sex, but i think that'd be interesting for another topic./forum policing
Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, your point I dealt with. Animals, in terms of what we are physically, yes, but mentally so much more than that, and if you can't see that then I can't help you.
Actually, you glossed over my point. I made the claim that if it is observed in nature, then it is natural. You just restated that it isn't natural (even though it happens in nature), without actually addressing what I said. Mentally, we have it over animals, but that's necessary since we can't fly, aren't poisonous, don't have particularly sharp teeth or ferocious claws, aren't very fast runners, and are not all that strong. Our brains evolved to mask those shortcomings. Doesn't change the fact that we're animals.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, you glossed over my point. I made the claim that if it is observed in nature, then it is natural. You just restated that it isn't natural (even though it happens in nature), without actually addressing what I said. Mentally, we have it over animals, but that's necessary since we can't fly, aren't poisonous, don't have particularly sharp teeth or ferocious claws, aren't very fast runners, and are not all that strong. Our brains evolved to mask those shortcomings. Doesn't change the fact that we're animals.
Then by your reasoning it would be perfectly natural for me to lick my own balls. Which it isn't. Penis in poopchute- gross. Penis in mouth- gross. Not what God intended at all, especially when it comes to Mr. Poopchute- functionally not even designed to take that kind of abuse. Seriously, why do people actually need this spelled out for them? I will answer that for you- although we are better than animals, some of us just don't have the capacity to realize that. It would also be perfectly natural to eat my young, to walk up to a tree and just hump it doggystyle, to eat my wife after conception or to pick fleas off of your head and eat them. Your argument is about as retarded as can be.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Then by your reasoning it would be perfectly natural for me to lick my own balls. Which it isn't. Penis in poopchute- gross. Penis in mouth- gross. Not what God intended at all, especially when it comes to Mr. Poopchute- functionally not even designed to take that kind of abuse. Seriously, why do people actually need this spelled out for them? I will answer that for you- although we are better than animals, some of us just don't have the capacity to realize that. It would also be perfectly natural to eat my young, to walk up to a tree and just hump it doggystyle, to eat my wife after conception or to pick fleas off of your head and eat them. Your argument is about as retarded as can be.
By my reasoning, despite what you think is icky and what you know god intends, homosexuality is something that happens in both humans and people. It is natural, and there's no reason to believe that it has its origins in anything perverse.
Link to post
Share on other sites
By my reasoning, despite what you think is icky and what you know god intends, homosexuality is something that happens in both humans and people. It is natural, and there's no reason to believe that it has its origins in anything perverse.
Im sorry but u are tryin to make the argument that homsexuality is natural? What purpose does it fulfill? reproduction? anything other than for pleasure? Your tryin to justify homosexuality by saying sex is natural to humans...Lots of things come natural to people such as death but we dont use that as means of justifying murder do we? Of course not
Link to post
Share on other sites
Im sorry but u are tryin to make the argument that homsexuality is natural? What purpose does it fulfill? reproduction? anything other than for pleasure? Your tryin to justify homosexuality by saying sex is natural to humans...Lots of things come natural to people such as death but we dont use that as means of justifying murder do we? Of course not
Does there need to be a reproductive purpose for it homosexuality to be considered natural, and therefore, of a stature that should be recogized in public? What about an infertile couple? If that is "unnatural"--should we not withhold the incidents of marriage from that couple? I'm not sure if you want to go down this road of reasoning.But there are other reasons why we outlaw murder--obvious ones at that. Are there reasons, besides those that are religious in nature or are outright bigotry, that homosexual couples shouldn't be afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples?If you're going to discriminate against a particular group who engage in an activity that is natural, although not common, there should be a reason behind such discrimination.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Does there need to be a reproductive purpose for it homosexuality to be considered natural, and therefore, of a stature that should be recogized in public? What about an infertile couple? If that is "unnatural"--should we not withhold the incidents of marriage from that couple? I'm not sure if you want to go down this road of reasoning.But there are other reasons why we outlaw murder--obvious ones at that. Are there reasons, besides those that are religious in nature or are outright bigotry, that homosexual couples shouldn't be afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples?If you're going to discriminate against a particular group who engage in an activity that is natural, although not common, there should be a reason behind such discrimination.
what reasoning? Bible is chock full of people who were infertile but by the glory of God were given a child. You cant compare the natural process to the unnatural. The fact is that there is no chance of a homosexual couple producing a child correct? Therefore it isnt natural. Why do we outlaw murder? b/c morally we know its wrong? but thats another subject entirely isnt it? Again...what makes homosexuality common? What is common about it? Obviously a man and woman are built for that purpose what about a man and man? You know that it isnt natural yet are tryin to justify it.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...