Christian View Of Sex

[Mattnxtc 0]

So it's sex drive in the confines of marriage to have dirty thougths about my partner, but it's lust and a sin if I have them about someone else? I'm soooo screwed.

see no there is a difference...You should want to be with your husband. Bible makes it very clear that you and yoru husband are fine in that. But to sit there and lust about future events is completely different. It is very different with how your relationship is with yoru husband as to with someone else. With your husband you can act on your feelings. If you feel like yuou want to do something wit him. Do it!!! its not a big dealbut to sit there and lust after another guy/girl who you arent married to is wrong. Why? b/c you arent married to them. According to the Bible yall shouldnt ever be together. Do you see the difference? As a side note, not that it pertains to you specifically which is why i waited till now to put it in...masturbation/pornography isnt ok ever..Not even if it is about ur significant other.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Nikki, sounds like you're struggling a bit.The question is not whether you are sinning, you know you are.The question is not whether you're "screwed", because you're not.The question is whether at some point, before you pass, you can repent. The most pious man/woman sins their face off every day, and nobody can get into heaven without God's grace. From listening to you, I don't think you're quite as lost as it seems. GL

[suitedinc 0]

Nikki- If it makes you feel any better. I will admit, as a guy, lust is a serious issue for me. I struggle to stay away from porn, i struggle to not look at a woman and let my mind wander, and I struggle with some of the very low cut blouses that women wear these days. These are my struggles that sometimes lead to sin.That being said, I've been a Christian since I accepted His forgiveness in high school. It is comforting to know that God forgives and sees past this part of me. The Bible says when we first believe, we "put on Christ", meaning God sees His son when he looks at us.It is now my job daily, usually hourly, to try to stay true to God and not act on the things I would like to do, but instead run from the situations that cause me to sin.This is why homosexuality is wrong. The whole genetic debate and "God made me this way" stuff just doesn't hold up and does not matter. I struggle just the same with the way God made me as a homo does with the way God made them. We all fall under the same request from God though, which is to love him and accept his gift and try to live the life he calls us to in the Bible.Hope that helps.

[Nikki_N 17]

This is why homosexuality is wrong. The whole genetic debate and "God made me this way" stuff just doesn't hold up and does not matter. I struggle just the same with the way God made me as a homo does with the way God made them. We all fall under the same request from God though, which is to love him and accept his gift and try to live the life he calls us to in the Bible.

I guess I just struggle with the injustice that homosexuals are supposed to live a life of celibacy, or have to be something they are not in order to get relief. There is huge injustice there. Yes, it's true that life isn't always fair, but damn!

[Mattnxtc 0]

I guess I just struggle with the injustice that homosexuals are supposed to live a life of celibacy, or have to be something they are not in order to get relief. There is huge injustice there. Yes, it's true that life isn't always fair, but damn!

there are in fact christian support groups for people who felt that homosexuality was the only way. yet they all now live normal heterosexual lives married and happy

[suitedinc 0]

well, it is only injustice if life is all about sex, which it isn't. at least it shouldn't be. not to minimize it, I'm sure that it is hard.

[timwakefield 68]

well, it is only injustice if life is all about sex, which it isn't.

Actually, it is. See evolution vs not-evolution.

[Nikki_N 17]

there are in fact christian support groups for people who felt that homosexuality was the only way. yet they all now live normal heterosexual lives married and happy

I don't know how to comment here without sounding inflammatory and this thread has so far been very civil so I think here is where we will just have to agree to disagree.Ok, I can't totally hold my typing fingers here:It isn't right to try and "convert" gay people. If God said everyone should be homosexual, if that were the scripture, would you choose sin, celibacy, or a homosexual relationship? If God deemed that we must all be squirrels, would you grow fur? Ok, you are going to comment and it's totally your right to do so, but I think it's best I stay out of this discussion further because, as I said before, I'm all about the love and I try not to be about anger on fcp.

well, it is only injustice if life is all about sex, which it isn't. at least it shouldn't be. not to minimize it, I'm sure that it is hard.

So homosexuals should lead lives of celibacy? Could you do that?

[Mattnxtc 0]

I don't know how to comment here without sounding inflammatory and this thread has so far been very civil so I think here is where we will just have to agree to disagree.Ok, I can't totally hold my typing fingers here:It isn't right to try and "convert" gay people. If God said everyone should be homosexual, if that were the scripture, would you choose sin, celibacy, or a homosexual relationship? If God deemed that we must all be squirrels, would you grow fur? Ok, you are going to comment and it's totally your right to do so, but I think it's best I stay out of this discussion further because, as I said before, I'm all about the love and I try not to be about anger on fcp.

I am sorry if thats how you took it i didnt mean it to be that way. What i was merely showing is that there are groups out there comprised of christians who were once homosexuals who were able to overcome that temptation. It isnt right to convert gay people? why not? I would try to talk to gay people, straight people, tall people, small people, white black, mexican and so forth. Nobody shoudl be limited in who they share the gospel to. If you are a sinner then it is my duty to inform you of this. To let you know what awaits you in hell. I would hope ud be more offended by the person who wouldnt tell you of eternal hell b/c of some feature of urs they dont likeYour what ifs dont make much sense though and i think you said them in anger without thinking. If God said we were to all be homosexuals then we would all be homosexuals. What else coudl we do? Then again we wouldnt exist since up until recently homosexuals couldnt reproduce. If God said we were squirrels we woudl be squirrels not humans..again nikki im not tryin to make this personal at all with you

[timwakefield 68]

I don't know how to comment here without sounding inflammatory and this thread has so far been very civil so I think here is where we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think that when you are having a discussion with people who are closed-minded and prejudiced, you shouldn't avoid an inflammatory conversation. I am of the opinion that homophobics will be regarded, in say 50 years, the same way southern racists from the 1950s are regarded today - scum. I'm sorry to those of you who I offended with that, but hiding behind a Bible and using that as an excuse to allow yourself to fear and hate homosexuals is cowardly. Why don't you learn something about it first - it's genetic, it is NOT a choice people make.Somebody CAN make a choice to ignore what they feel inside, and to pretend not to be gay. IMO this is as hard for them as it would be for you to marry a person of your own sex despite you being a heterosexual. In case anybody is interested, I'm straight.....just in case you thought that being gay was the reason I feel so strongly about this.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I think that when you are having a discussion with people who are closed-minded and prejudiced, you shouldn't avoid an inflammatory conversation. I am of the opinion that homophobics will be regarded, in say 50 years, the same way southern racists from the 1950s are regarded today - scum. I'm sorry to those of you who I offended with that, but hiding behind a Bible and using that as an excuse to allow yourself to fear and hate homosexuals is cowardly. Why don't you learn something about it first - it's genetic, it is NOT a choice people make.Somebody CAN make a choice to ignore what they feel inside, and to pretend not to be gay. IMO this is as hard for them as it would be for you to marry a person of your own sex despite you being a heterosexual. In case anybody is interested, I'm straight.....just in case you thought that being gay was the reason I feel so strongly about this.

haha the bolded made me laugh...as for me being close minded? no. I am not scared of homosexuals. My uncle is gay and im not scared of him, know others that are homosexual and thats fine..BUT that is not an excuse to sin and be alright with itbut thanks for judgin me Tim

[timwakefield 68]

haha the bolded made me laugh...as for me being close minded? no. I am not scared of homosexuals. My uncle is gay and im not scared of him, know others that are homosexual and thats fine..BUT that is not an excuse to sin and be alright with itbut thanks for judgin me Tim

You mean the same way you are judging every homosexual in the world??I did not mean that you personally are scum. Not every southern racist in the 1950s was scum, they were just unenlightened regarding the races. Being gay or straight is no more a choice than being black or white. You just can't see it on the outside.edit: check out some recent scientific studies into the causes of homosexuality, if you are interested. You will find that scientists are finding more and more evidence that gay men and women are born gay.

[Nikki_N 17]

haha the bolded made me laugh...as for me being close minded? no. I am not scared of homosexuals. My uncle is gay and im not scared of him, know others that are homosexual and thats fine..BUT that is not an excuse to sin and be alright with itbut thanks for judgin me Tim

The bolded part of that post is the part I agree with. This is why we can't have this discussion.I am bisexual. I have always been bisexual. I am as bisexual as you are heterosexual.

You mean the same way you are judging every homosexual in the world??I did not mean that you personally are scum. Not every southern racist in the 1950s was scum, they were just unenlightened regarding the races. Being gay or straight is no more a choice than being black or white. You just can't see it on the outside.edit: check out some recent scientific studies into the causes of homosexuality, if you are interested. You will find that scientists are finding more and more evidence that gay men and women are born gay.

That's what I'm saying.

[Farnan 0]

there are in fact christian support groups for people who felt that homosexuality was the only way. yet they all now live normal heterosexual lives married and happy

Yeah, and often times those "support groups" force them in to even deeper depression and even suicide.First off, i am Christian (not that there's anything wrong with that), though i consider myself more agnostic than anything.Personally, I don't care if anyone thinks homosexuality is wrong. In my opinion, that is YOUR problem. I know lots of gay people who are more kind, giving, etc. than other self proclaimed Christians some of whom are sexist, racist and out and out bad people a lot of the time (but they get a pass from the general population if they go to church every weekend). But everyone is free to think what they wish. Personally, i think most Christians who are anti-gay are hiding behind their religion to shield them from them realizing they're just homophobes. Again, people can think what they think--but when i see a schmuck walking down the street with a KKK shirt on, i think RACIST. So when i hear people talking about homosexuality being wrong or they need "help" or need to be "saved"--i think BIGOT. But that is the country we live in---we have the freedom to think what we wish. But it goes both ways.The problem i have is when these views are set into legislation. Just because a book someone thinks is the word of God says you cannot do something doesn't give them the right to impose those views on others. This is NOT a theocracy. Our Constitution was drafted by those who were persecuted for religious reasons and there was a concious effort to make sure that this type of thing wouldn't happen again. Religous doctrine should NOT be the reason for discriminatory legislation.There is no secular reason why gays shouldn't be able to get married (or unionized if the word "marriage" is so sacred). There is no rational reason why they shouldn't be able to adopt kids. There is no reason why they should be afforded the same rights as straight couples. These discriminatory actions are based upon prejudice and homophobia. Think what you wish, but keep your religion out of our nation's laws.And going along with what tim said in the end of his post--i don't give a crap whether someone thinks i'm gay, straight, bi or whatever. It shouldn't matter. In fact, it doesn't.

[Nikki_N 17]

I am sorry if thats how you took it i didnt mean it to be that way. What i was merely showing is that there are groups out there comprised of christians who were once homosexuals who were able to overcome that temptation. It isnt right to convert gay people? why not? I would try to talk to gay people, straight people, tall people, small people, white black, mexican and so forth. Nobody shoudl be limited in who they share the gospel to. If you are a sinner then it is my duty to inform you of this. To let you know what awaits you in hell. I would hope ud be more offended by the person who wouldnt tell you of eternal hell b/c of some feature of urs they dont likeYour what ifs dont make much sense though and i think you said them in anger without thinking. If God said we were to all be homosexuals then we would all be homosexuals. What else coudl we do? Then again we wouldnt exist since up until recently homosexuals couldnt reproduce. If God said we were squirrels we woudl be squirrels not humans..again nikki im not tryin to make this personal at all with you

So you are saying that scripturally God expects us to be heterosexual. I think this is what Paul is getting at, but I'm just not that way. When you say, "what else could we do?" you are coming from a completely heterosexual perspective. I'm not heterosexual, and God made me who I am. This is the dilemma I face when Paul's letter's to the people of Corinth are discussed.

[suitedinc 0]

Tim,I'm sure you're the first one to tell people not judge others too. Since when is saying that giving into a temptation, in this case homosexuality, is equal to "fearing" someone. I'm not offended in the least by your statement. It does however reveal your own biases and prejudices against a view other than your own. Kinda hypocritical huh? BTW, I have had good friends who were gay, lived in the same building with them. So much for "theory" of homophobic.Also Tim, We finally agree on something. Evolution vs Creation is fundamental to the rest of your view on life. If you believe you came from a creator, you see your life differently then if you believe you are the product of millions of years of mutations.Nikki, to answer your question, if I had homophobic tenedecies, I would have to live a life of celebacy. Like I said earlier, I do struggle. If I followed every urge I had, I would have had many affairs. How is a homo sex drive different than my own urges? There are both not what God desires, and yet I live with the urge like every homosexual does.Look, there are singles out there that are older and never married who hetero, and virgins. WHAT???? Is it possible? Of course it is not easy, but they followed God's call and His will.

[timwakefield 68]

Tim,I'm sure you're the first one to tell people not judge others too. Since when is saying that giving into a temptation, in this case homosexuality, is equal to "fearing" someone.

Because, IMO, a homosexual couple is not 'giving in to temptation' any more than a heterosexual couple.

I'm not offended in the least by your statement. It does however reveal your own biases and prejudices against a view other than your own. Kinda hypocritical huh? BTW, I have had good friends who were gay, lived in the same building with them. So much for "theory" of homophobic.

Fair enough. And yes, I guess you could say I am biased against homophobics, racists, etc.

Also Tim, We finally agree on something. Evolution vs Creation is fundamental to the rest of your view on life. If you believe you came from a creator, you see your life differently then if you believe you are the product of millions of years of mutations.

You make a good point. These two word-views are hardly compatible, and they lead a person to regard many aspects of life in very different ways.

[Farnan 0]

If I followed every urge I had, I would have had many affairs. How is a homo sex drive different than my own urges? There are both not what God desires, and yet I live with the urge like every homosexual does.

Do you have those urges when you see a guy? Well, a gay person sees a person of the same sex and has those urges and when they see person of the opposite sex, they don't have that urge. That is the difference. If a gay person who is in a committed relationship had urges about other people and didn't act on them, THAT would be similar to your situation.

[Nikki_N 17]

Nikki, to answer your question, if I had homophobic tenedecies, I would have to live a life of celebacy. Like I said earlier, I do struggle. If I followed every urge I had, I would have had many affairs. How is a homo sex drive different than my own urges? There are both not what God desires, and yet I live with the urge like every homosexual does.Look, there are singles out there that are older and never married who hetero, and virgins. WHAT???? Is it possible? Of course it is not easy, but they followed God's call and His will.

The desire to share one's life, love, and intimacy with another human being is not just an "urge". It is a fundamental part of a human being's soul. You are allowed by God to act on your "urges" within the confines of marriage. Yet the homosexuals created by Him are not. Here is where I see a terrible injustice.It makes me sad that anyone can look upon the love of two people and call it "wrong". It's love. Love is never a bad thing. We need more of it in this world. God may strike me down right here for putting this in writing, but so be it. Paul's scripture on this matter has bred much hatred throughout the centuries. People have been using God's name to hate for a long time and this scripture is responsible for much of it. I can't get behind that.

[mrdannyg 274]

edit: i posted this when the thread was only one page long...i'll read the rest and maybe edit it further if need be.i really appreciate the time and efforts matt.i'm curious as to the meaning of "perverse" as it relates to effeminity. first, why are those two related? second, what does "perverse" imply? it seems that since sex can be had without the purpose of procreation, the bible allows people a pretty decent range of what is sexually allowed between a husband and wife. if perverse does not refer to homosexuality (since effeminity and homosexuality are explicitly not allowed), what does it refer to?thanks,daniel

[rp_Froggy 0]

This logic is so very flawed. God made me that way is not a valid reason to act on one's urges.If it were then it would hold true for a murderer with murderous urges. "God made me the murderer I am so how can you ask me not to murder".I am in no way comparing a homosexual to a murderer, but just can't keep reading the "God made me that way" posts without pointing out the flaw in that logic. It can be used for any urge of any kind.Good luck in figuring all this out, becasue it certainly is no easy affair.

..You are allowed by God to act on your "urges" within the confines of marriage. Yet the homosexuals created by Him are not. Here is where I see a terrible injustice.

[Farnan 0]

Since when is being gay just an "urge"? Have any of you straight guys had the urge to get in some guy's pants??

[timwakefield 68]

I am in no way comparing a homosexual to a murderer, but just can't keep reading the "God made me that way" posts without pointing out the flaw in that logic. It can be used for any urge of any kind.

Yes it can. But here the argument means something different IMO. Imagine it is 1950 and a black man wants to eat in a whites-only restaurant. His argument for why he should be allowed in is "God made me this way. I am no different than you....a creature of God....I am neither lesser nor greater...we are the same."Homosexuals should be allowed to engage in homosexual relationships without people berating them all day. They should be allowed to kiss on the street without people making comments and giving dirty looks. Why should it bother anybody else what they do, if it does no harm to others?

[Mattnxtc 0]

Here what i see is a problem with a lot of this line of reasoning used. People talk about homosexuality like it is a unique thing. Each one of yall look at your lives and i bet there is something in your life that you are more suseptible (sp?). Some would say that people are more likely to drink (yet we tell them to not give into that urge)some are more likely to be addicted to gambling...and we try to get them help for thatsome are more likely to be addicted to drugs...we try to keep those urges down...Heres the thing..there is something in everybodies life that we are more likely to give way to...I have mine and im sure yall have yours. Its a struggle not to give into those urges but you know what..we all work to supress those urges

[timwakefield 68]

Here what i see is a problem with a lot of this line of reasoning used. People talk about homosexuality like it is a unique thing. Each one of yall look at your lives and i bet there is something in your life that you are more suseptible (sp?). Some would say that people are more likely to drink (yet we tell them to not give into that urge)some are more likely to be addicted to gambling...and we try to get them help for thatsome are more likely to be addicted to drugs...we try to keep those urges down...Heres the thing..there is something in everybodies life that we are more likely to give way to...I have mine and im sure yall have yours. Its a struggle not to give into those urges but you know what..we all work to supress those urges

Asking a self-declared homosexual or bisexual to resist the urges of homosexuality is like asking a Mexican to resist the urge to have dark skin.