people, gutshots are not profitable!!!!

[PUNNISHER 0]

I say this because today alone, I have had 3 gut shots river me out. 2 were in limit and one in NL. The one in limit, I check-raised the guy on the flop then again on the turn! How does one feel that being HU and having been check-raised twice warrant sufficient enough odd to chase their gut shot? The one in NL went down like this. I raised with 98 off. Yes I know, not a great raising hand. The flop comes Q92 rainbow. He bets right into me, and now it is a decent pot, and I just "know" he does not have a Q. I re-raise him all in for something like $14 more and this guys calls. He turns over J8 off. WHAT? Either he had check call any on or just does not realize how bad of a hand that is for all your cash. The turn brough an 8 giving me 2 pair and the river brought his T. Lastly, small PP are also no good after a flop of overs. I had a guy limp in, I raised with KK. He calls. Flop is J63 rainbow. He bets, I raise, he calls. The turn is a 5, he checks, I bet and he instantly calls (this is 1/2$ limit). The river is a 2. He bets right into me. I just could not see him having a 4 for the straight or 2 pair in a raised pot. So I called and he turns over 22. WOW! I had to laugh that one off. Seriously, I did not even get mad, because these are the type of players I love having at the table and if the did not hit these 2 outers occasionally they would be A) broke or B) discouraged, and neither of these are something we want fish being at the table. L*

[bmwguy525 0]

I know how you feel. Lately I've had many people CALL an all-in against me with a straight draw or flush draw with one card to go. Happened to me on the second hand of a SnG. I had trip Ks, this guy calls all his chips on a low end straight draw for the last card......guess what........that's right.......

[PUNNISHER 0]

patient....

[TheIceman05 0]

I like the way you spell punnisher. IcePS- Thank God the fish exist every day, or we'd both be losing players.

[mays24 0]

Not defending the guy, but at least he had SIX outs, not 2.

[snowbird 0]

this is just another example of a guy that doesn't understand on-line poker...look buddy, when you play on-line you play TONS of more hands than if you were playing live...therefore you will have more beats like that...the odds do not change whether you play 10 hands or 10 thousand....people will hit gutshot straights and 2 out sets on the river...get used to it or don't play poker...

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

Snowbirds should be an extinct species......

[Blue58 0]

You know somethin..Ive never accepted the whole "Its because you see so many more hands online" reason, and Ill tell you why. You're on that hand, and at the moment, you are playing 1 hand. 1 hand only. The odds of him hitting his gutshot dont all of the sudden jump up to 3:1 just because I was involved in 400 hands today. I never understood the logic behind that excuse...I played 2 tournaments today. First tourney I have AK on the BB. Everyone folds to the SB and he raises the BB 3x. I smooth call. Flop comes K-6-2. He instantly goes allin, I call, he flips over 3-3. Turn:x River:3 Bye.Next Tourney I have QQ on the Cutoff. I raise to 4x the BB. BB calls, flop comes 10-7-4. BB Goes all-in, I call, he shows 5-5. Turn:x River:5 Bye.Online poker is cool.As a full time poker dealer for many years in a casino, I've seen tens of thousands of live hands, and I can honestly say its just not the same as online poker...And before you give me the "Oh wow.. its 2 hands..." thing.. Ive been playing online for a very long time...

[faketree 0]

blah blah. bad beat bad beat. it happens. be thankful someone called all in on a draw. most of the time you'll win. don't complain about stuff that you should want to happen. would you have rather he called with the nuts? i just don't get bad beat sob stories.plus, if those people never hit their gutshots they'd quit playing after a while and that would sure suck for the rest of us. next time tell him it was a nice hand and he played it well. hopefully, he'll play it the same way next time.

[Skydancing8 0]

blah blah. bad beat bad beat.  it happens.  be thankful someone called all in on a draw.  most of the time you'll win.  don't complain about stuff that you should want to happen.  would you have rather he called with the nuts?  i just don't get bad beat sob stories.plus, if those people never hit their gutshots they'd quit playing after a while and that would sure suck for the rest of us.  next time tell him it was a nice hand and he played it well.  hopefully, he'll play it the same way next time.

<-------------------------------- agrees

[CavemanDoctor 0]

I don't think he meant that the odds of something happening go up when you play more hands.All he said was that you'll see those suckouts more often because, obviously, you're playing more hands. The brain, perhaps not making the distinction between the faster (and hence more hands per hour) nature of online poker and the slower (and hence less hands per hour) nature of live action poker, assumes that in some magical way there are more crapouts online.I'm not saying I agree that that's the sole reason. I do think he does raise a valid point though. I also think online poker (depending on where you play) has a lot of people who just chase and chase and chase. Maybe it's because it seems less like real money to them and they're willing to call bets when the odds are stacked against them? Maybe they just don't understand or know about pot odds? Maybe they're just uber-curious and HAVE to know what that river will bring them? Maybe they just suck all around and think that's how poker is played?Who knows.

[crackthis09 0]

heres my foxing today with the set draw....It put a smile on my face.Hand #4609033-1137 at Chengdu ($.50/$1 Hold'em)Powered by UltimateBetStarted at 01/Mar/05 00:25:51 Master D is at seat 0 with $31.35. ZebraFishZayJ is at seat 1 with $55.45. Luckydraw7 is at seat 2 with $49.20. Big Cheezy is at seat 3 with $13.20. one_eye_Riley is at seat 5 with $48.60. The button is at seat 3. one_eye_Riley posts the small blind of $.25. Master D posts the big blind of $.50. Master D: -- -- ZebraFishZayJ: Ks Kc Luckydraw7: -- -- Big Cheezy: -- -- one_eye_Riley: -- --Pre-flop: ZebraFishZayJ raises to $1. Luckydraw7 calls. Big Cheezy calls. one_eye_Riley folds. Master D calls. Flop (board: 7h 2h 3d): Master D checks. ZebraFishZayJ bets $.50. Luckydraw7 calls. Big Cheezy calls. Master D calls. Turn (board: 7h 2h 3d Jd): Master D checks. ZebraFishZayJ bets $1. Luckydraw7 folds. Big Cheezy calls. Master D calls. River (board: 7h 2h 3d Jd 5s): Master D checks. ZebraFishZayJ bets $1. Big Cheezy raises to $2. Master D folds. ZebraFishZayJ calls. Showdown: Big Cheezy shows 5d 5h. Big Cheezy has 5d 5h 7h Jd 5s: three fives. ZebraFishZayJ mucks cards. (ZebraFishZayJ has Ks Kc.) Hand #4609033-1137 Summary: $.50 is raked from a pot of $13.25. Big Cheezy wins $12.75 with three fives.

[bettor 0]

i've always operated under the assumption that if you're opponents are getting bad beats against you more often than you are sucking out against them...you are playing well. i remind myself of that everytime, and it keeps me from getting too discouraged. 8) my mantra is...live well, play well.

[21gambit 0]

I know you all know this, but I felt I had to post it.Sometimes gutshots are profitableIn loose limit games, where everyome and their brother is in the pot, you will sometimes have the right pot odds to go for a gutshot. All you need in this situation is, lets see, the odds of hitting a gutshot on the turn are 4 out of 47 cards so you are an 11 to 1 dog, if the game is 5-10 and there is 11 times what it costs to call in the pot, which would be 55, you would be getting the right pot odds to call and would be an idiot not to, UNLESS, the board has paired or there are two to a flush on the flop reducing the probability that your hand will be the nuts, or close to it if you hit it. As a matter of fact, if there is that much money in the pot and none of the above scenarios apply and you fold because "I dont chase gutshots" then I think you are just a bad player, everyone else is laying you the right money to make this a profiltable play in the long run, so you have to go for it.Now, on the other hand, when other players go for there gutshot draws and the pot is not laying them the right odds, try not to get pissed off. I know its hard and I used to do it all the time, berating the other player for such poor play. But now I look at it this way, they are going for those long shot draws against all odds and making a unprofitable play, this is what funds you in the long run, bad players chasing horrible draws are usually just giving their money to you. These players are the same players who go and play roulette trying to hit a specific number, even though if they hit their number on the roulette table once, they will still be a loser in the long run, because the amount of times they will hit their number doesnt equal the amount of money they get paid off for hitting their number, THIS IS HOW THE CASINO MAKES THEIR MONEY, and this is how you, as a poker player make your money, players chasing dreams on you fund you, now imagine if a pit boss got angry at a roulette player for chasing such a long shot number, and hitting, What a ****ing moron, do you know that your not getting the right odds on the roulette table to try to hit that number?! Do you realize how silly this would be? If the casino berated a gambler for making a bet where the odds were against him?! It makes me laugh to imagine it happening. The casinos make their money on gamblers like this, and so do you. Now the pit-boss just screwed himself, because the player realizes that roulette is a losing game for everyone is the long run and doesnt play it anymore, and now you prevent online players from chasing stupid draws and not giving you extra bets, why would you do this? Your gonna lose sometimes, just like the casinos have to pay off a winner in roulette, but they, just like you should, know that in the long run, people who play, are just giving them their money.I didnt state this as eloquently as possible, but I hope you get the gist of it, and that it helps calm you at the table when someone hits something stupid like this. No need to tilt, just stroke your ego, knowing that you are a superior player.

[Solodell 0]

if it weren't for these type of people making loose/bad calls, good players wouldn't make much money now would they. Yeah it sucks, but just remember that in the long run they will lose, and hopefully you will win.

[ryejem 0]

I find that there are often several people on tilt at an online table as opposed to one or two in a live game. At a live table it is pretty easy to see whose on tilt , so when they suck out its much less of a surprise.

[Absolution 0]

I find them very profitable in low stakes limit games. :/

[Blue58 0]

Ive been dealing live casino poker and playing poker for 10 years.. so Yes, obviosuly I understand the odds of a gutshot suckout, and I understand that you want these people calling you allin with their trash. I salivate when they turn their cards over. But one thing Ive noticed is that for the 5 years Ive played online.. I *still* find myself saying "Ahhh..nice catch...whatever, it has to even out, these people cant hit their miracles every time". It just never seems to happen. Seems like everytime I logoff an online session Im just scratching my head wondering how I lost 8 out of the 10 heads up big pot situations I got into where I was an 5:1 or 11:1 favorite. *YES, THE POT-ODDS MIGHT JUSTIFY THEM CALLING ON A GUTSHOT*, but that doesn't change the odds of them hitting their miracle card! When I play live, which I play much more of, I simply annihilate the table more often then not. I'm no poker rookie who saw the game on TV and decided it would a cool thing to do. I've been playing this game almost every day for 10 years. I play it, deal it, read it, sleep it. And from someone who has been around the game for that much time.. Im tryin to tell you guys.. it just ain't the same ...

[yeffy 0]

Ive been dealing live casino poker and playing poker for 10 years.. so Yes, obviosuly I understand the odds of a gutshot suckout, and I understand that you want these people calling you allin with their trash. I salivate when they turn their cards over. But one thing Ive noticed is that for the 5 years Ive played online.. I *still* find myself saying "Ahhh..nice catch...whatever, it has to even out, these people cant hit their miracles every time". It just never seems to happen. Seems like everytime I logoff an online session Im just scratching my head wondering how I lost 8 out of the 10 heads up big pot situations I got into where I was an 5:1 or 11:1 favorite. *YES, THE POT-ODDS MIGHT JUSTIFY THEM CALLING ON A GUTSHOT*, but that doesn't change the odds of them hitting their miracle card!  When I play live, which I play much more of, I simply annihilate the table more often then not. I'm no poker rookie who saw the game on TV and decided it would a cool thing to do. I've been playing this game almost every day for 10 years. I play it, deal it, read it, sleep it. And from someone who has been around the game for that much time.. Im tryin to tell you guys.. it just ain't the same ...

Maybe the player noticed you raising hands like 89os. He figured J hi might be good . Or with his gutshot outs and the J (and possibly the 8 ) he can figure on between 7 and 10 outs and potentially having the best hand it might be he just outplayed you there. (partially kidding)Another leak in your game is definitely FPS (fancy play syndrome). You checkraised a guy twice. So you cant discuss his odds on hitting a gutshot. You offered him infinite odds on hitting his gutshot on the flop. He just chose not to take it. If he checks behind you then you have made as bad of an error as possible by giving infinite odds on his draw. Then you decide the right play is to go for a 2nd checkraise??? As we see by the results he was on a draw, so you now give him a second shot at an infinite odds draw! He might have figured 'what fool would try to checkraise twice, he must have been making a move, I can win this pot with a bet here'. Then you checkraise him again, and you have succeded in ticking him off enough that he's pleading to hit that gutterball and suck out on you. Perhaps had you bet out on the flop, he would have taken one off and then folded to your turn bet. I think you need to examine your own play if you find that:

"everytime I logoff an online session Im just scratching my head wondering how I lost "

[justblaze 0]

You know somethin..Ive never accepted the whole "Its because you see so many more hands online" reason, and Ill tell you why. You're on that hand, and at the moment, you are playing 1 hand. 1 hand only. The odds of him hitting his gutshot dont all of the sudden jump up to 3:1 just because I was involved in 400 hands today. I never understood the logic behind that excuse...

the logic is that while the odds of a gutshot on each individual hand are the same, the odds that SOMEONE, SOMETIME will hit a gutshot on you over 400 hands are much better than the odds it will happen over 100 hands. it makes perfect mathematical sense. that, combined with selective memory (people tend to remember the abnormal, not the mundane), make all these 'its rigged im taking bad beats' posts common. To the OP, if you love these players why on earth are you teaching them the errors of their ways? how much was in the pot already on the J8? pot odds might have justified the call. 22, if he puts you on AK hes leading, and even if you have AJ, hes got 6 outs and decent pot odds to continue. Perhaps you are the fish.

[Blue58 0]

"Another leak in your game is definitely FPS (fancy play syndrome). You checkraised a guy twice. So you cant discuss his odds on hitting a gutshot. You offered him infinite odds on hitting his gutshot on the flop."No, no, no.. if you had read my post you would have seen that both times, *they* were 1st to act. I was IN position. Re-read my post again and then come back and try again. :roll:

[PUNNISHER 0]

some of you made some excellent points. I was actually the one that check-raised the guy twice and he hit his gutshot on the river. Your right about leading out on the flop, however, I know he absolutely would have called me, and the way this guy was playing, he bet every single flop. Thus I felt by check-raising him, he would get the hint that I had him slaughtered. Anyways, sorry to cause so much emotion, as truly my intentions was not to post another bad beat post. Speaking of, I sucked out yesterday in a Cash NL game, where I had $24 in front of me. I raised to $4. It was re-raised to 24$ and I viewed this as someone with more money attempting to bully me, so I called with 77 (yes I know this is a horrible call). He had TT and I spiked a 7 on the river. So I guess justice is blind. L*

[Skydancing8 0]

People only remember "bad beats". They don't remember good thing because they want to be mad about something.

[Blue58 0]

People only remember "bad beats". They don't remember good thing because they want to be mad about something.

Tune in next time for "Yet another poker cliche"

[justblaze 0]

People only remember "bad beats". They don't remember good thing because they want to be mad about something.

Tune in next time for "Yet another poker cliche"

also, an indepth look at 'things people have already pointed out'. by the way, this is not why they remember bad things. they dont remember not getting sucked out because a) it doesnt happen as often and B) you usually dont see the guys cards when he chases a gutshot and misses.