Anyone On Here Raised As A Catholic?

[Flack_attack 0]

Don't. It's not worth it. If you look at the big picture, and what was allowed then vs. what was allowed now biblical wise what you see is God just allowing humans to be a lesser brand of human- you and I look at a retarded person and we see a retarded person, but a person no less- people back then were not quite as insightful. I had never heard that before, and would love to see that scripture but it wouldn't suprise me. Alot of things God allowed, asked for was more tailored to a more barbaric being. Anyone agree with that assesment?

Right, I agree with you on the bolded. However, was God less insightful? (not a real question obv) These are Gods words and commands about physically deformed people not allowed to worship at the altar. Why would God change this up for his new covenant? I believe the scripture is in Deuteronomy or Leviticus, but I can't say for sure. I will try to find some examples of what I was saying and post them later.

[Loismustdie 0]

Right, I agree with you on the bolded. However, was God less insightful? (not a real question obv) These are Gods words and commands about physically deformed people not allowed to worship at the altar. Why would God change this up for his new covenant? I believe the scripture is in Deuteronomy or Leviticus, but I can't say for sure. I will try to find some examples of what I was saying and post them later.

Sweet, I would like to see those. As far as God being les insightful, no, not if it was a part of his master plan, which was to bring his Son eventually to bring a better way.

[TenaciousMe 0]

Just wondering if anyone else on this board was raised Catholic? If so, are you still practicing your faith? If not, would you like to share why? And, do you want to share your viewpoint on all of these Christian threads that are on this forum? Yeah, as you can guess, I am a Catholic girl. I even went to a Catholic highschool. I do not go to Church. Main reason is probably because I am still in conflict with the church. As a kid, I had a very inquiring mind and would ask LOTS of questions throughout CCD classes and made bold statements that we should learn about all religions before we get confirmed. At 13, I checked out books on many of the worlds religions, read some, skimmed through others. I decided that Catholicism was for me but I was not allowed to be confirmed. I guess my mouth and my rebellious was got the best of me. Anyway, after not being allowed to get confirmed after 8 years of CCD classes, I attending a Catholic highschool in the Virgin Islands. During that time, my parents got divorced. I guess out of guilt, my dad went and spoke with the preist. My dad asked my mom for an annulment and that really threw me through a loop. Of course, my mom said no way and the subject was dropped. Even though I am not a practicing Catholic, I still feel as if Cathoicism is my foundation. When I read the threads on Christianity, it seems as if so many have an all or nothing point of view. I remember as a kid, Christians telling me that I was not Christian because I was Catholic. That use to confuse me so much since the Catholic Church is the first Christian church. Anyway, the things I did take away from Catholicism were: Love God Love Everyone God Is Everywhere Pretty simplistic but I feel it is a strong foundation. Anyway... fellow Catholics or former Catholics, I would love for you to share your point of view. I find that as an adult, I often gravitate towards others who are or who have been raised as a Catholic. How about you?

I'm baptist but I attended a catholic school during my younger years so I'm familiar with their beliefs. All forms of Christianity are somewhat tied together; the main difference is emphasis in certain areas.

[Flack_attack 0]

Sweet, I would like to see those. As far as God being les insightful, no, not if it was a part of his master plan, which was to bring his Son eventually to bring a better way.

Deuteronomy So the LORD our God delivered4 into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote55 him until none was left52 to him remaining. 4 And we took4 all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took1 not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities [were] fenced7 with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.53 6 And we utterly destroyed55 them, as we did1 unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying53 the men, women, and children, of every city. 2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver1 them before thee; thou shalt smite52 them, [and] utterly53 destroy55 them; thou shalt make4 no covenant with them, nor show mercy4 unto them 2 A b.astard shall not enter4 into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter4 into the congregation of the LORD. Leviticus 23 none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the Lord by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. Yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary.

[Loismustdie 0]

Leviticus what 23? I am not finding that passage.

[mcsoupman 0]

Acknowledging this is not part of the OP question. That being said I will jump in quickly. Maybe we should start another thread.Duet 23 it should be.Congregation and b*stard are translated differently and many scholars believe their meanings to be slightly different.Congregation many translate to be assembly. We think of congregation to be a church. The assembly would mean to hold office or have authority. Some say that those of questionable background were not allowed so as to not bring division to any of their leadership.B*stard others translate to be illegitimate birth refering to either immoral conception or from a mixed racial arrangement. Again their exclusion was so there would not be potential division because of questionable background. Later the passage talks about excluding Moabites and Ammorites. Both of these people were cruel to the Isrealites when leaving Egypt. But they were not excluded in converting and worshiping. One whole book of the OT was dedicated to a Moabitess.Leviticus 21 - lame, blind etc.This was specifically talking about those going into the priesthood and entering into the holy of holies (AKA God's presense). This was true of physical imperfections as well as spiritual. They tied a rope around the foot of the high priest incase he died in the Holy of holies because of sin. This just shows the serious nature of our relationship with God.

[Braveheart91 0]

Lois, I do not believe engaging in any apologetic with you is of any benefit. You are nasty, ill-spirited, and worst of of all seem to be lost to whole continuity of scripture. You recite but do not understand. You postulate that Christ is not God incarnate, clearly in direct conflict with John 1:1. You refer to Revelation specifcally warning about Catholicism (not Catholocism) and it does no such thing. The Whore of Bablyon rap just doesn't fly. The earliest martyrs and writers of the Church were all distinctively and doctrinally Catholic, period. The men that preserved the scriptures and canonized the the Bible were all catholic, every one. So what you have done is to take what the Catholic Church has; arranged, protected, translated into the common language of the people (Latin at the time), produced hand-copied Bibles (when those costs were prohibitively expensive) for most parishes, illustrated in paintings/stained glass/scuplture for the illiterate and tried to use it to tear down the rightful guardians of that truth you pretend to espouse. You twist what was written by others into sneering condescension to be hurdled at them with whom you disagree. Such as....

Which is what many of your priests should be called, loudly, in front of everyone by the body of that church but you are in such dissarray that you actualy argure and say, and this isn't a quote but you said.." Hasn't anyone ever raped a child in your church? "

Anyone reading what I wrote could plainly see that I was pointing out that instances of abuse can occur anywhere there is frequently close unsupervised contact between adults and children. You lacking of comprehension of what was written would be suprising, leading me to believe that you disregarded what I wrote and merely engaged in vitriolic retort out of self-righteous arrogance.So I leave you with this one passage.1 Corinthians 13:22 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

[Loismustdie 0]

Lois, I do not believe engaging in any apologetic with you is of any benefit. You are nasty, ill-spirited, and worst of of all seem to be lost to whole continuity of scripture. You recite but do not understand. You postulate that Christ is not God incarnate, clearly in direct conflict with John 1:1. You refer to Revelation specifcally warning about Catholicism (not Catholocism) and it does no such thing. The Whore of Bablyon rap just doesn't fly. The earliest martyrs and writers of the Church were all distinctively and doctrinally Catholic, period. The men that preserved the scriptures and canonized the the Bible were all catholic, every one. So what you have done is to take what the Catholic Church has; arranged, protected, translated into the common language of the people (Latin at the time), produced hand-copied Bibles (when those costs were prohibitively expensive) for most parishes, illustrated in paintings/stained glass/scuplture for the illiterate and tried to use it to tear down the rightful guardians of that truth you pretend to espouse. You twist what was written by others into sneering condescension to be hurdled at them with whom you disagree. Such as....Anyone reading what I wrote could plainly see that I was pointing out that instances of abuse can occur anywhere there is frequently close unsupervised contact between adults and children. You lacking of comprehension of what was written would be suprising, leading me to believe that you disregarded what I wrote and merely engaged in vitriolic retort out of self-righteous arrogance.So I leave you with this one passage.1 Corinthians 13:22 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

That's the general reaction by somebody who is dead wrong. Hopefully, your Catholic leaders will at some point tell you some truth, otherwise, you'll never get it, becasue you'll never listen to anything else. So I leave you with this passage. See ya, wouldn't wanne be ya.

[Braveheart91 0]

There you go again. (I miss Reagan)Your arguments (I use that term loosely) do not stand up. You actually cited very little to dispute any of the catholic claims and what you did cite was hardly relevant to whole context of what was being put forward. If you would like to debate point by point (for the sake of clarity and continuity) I am up for it anytime. I have been through every argument you may offer (Remember I was an anti-catholic evangelical once too) and they are weak in the overall case against Catholicism. So the choice is yours.(P.S. Ever notice I don't have to resort to petty name calling or snide condescending barbs?)

[Loismustdie 0]

There you go again. (I miss Reagan)Your arguments (I use that term loosely) do not stand up. You actually cited very little to dispute any of the catholic claims and what you did cite was hardly relevant to whole context of what was being put forward. If you would like to debate point by point (for the sake of clarity and continuity) I am up for it anytime. I have been through every argument you may offer (Remember I was an anti-catholic evangelical once too) and they are weak in the overall case against Catholicism. So the choice is yours.(P.S. Ever notice I don't have to resort to petty name calling or snide condescending barbs?)

One more time- not one of the things I put forward as catholic teaching now/past have you refuted- except for titheing. Apparently, titheing is no longer done, however, there is many more than one collection and definitely more than just on the first day of the week. So, while I would give you that I shouldn't because you still manage to screw it up. I am not Anti- Catholic, I am pro biblical, and hands down, the Catholic Church is the easiest to disprove biblically. Praying to things/persons other than God, a hierarchy that does not exist in the New Testament, the law which we are to follow. The baptizing of babies- not one biblical example. Nuns- not one biblical example. Confessing sins in a booth to a man, not one biblical example. Pope- not one biblical example, and the one you offered made no sense, and would have been quite possibly the worst choice of the available talent. Peter was the Numero Uno Hothead of apostles. Not to mention that the whole idea of the Pope is flawed- it turns in to the plain flat out worshiping of a man, and treatment that defies logic- when did Jesus ride around with an array of Bodyguards? Never, and when his people acted to protect him- remember Peter?- Jesus rebuked them. Let's see, what haven't I covered. Oh, yeah, the blatent sign seeking which God says only Satan would do- Catholics have actual groups of investigators that decied whether or not something is of God, and what gives them the authority to do that? What gives them the authority to make God a liar? Nothing, it's all Satan's doing, and as usual he's good but not good enough to put one over on ANYONE who actually knew his bible. Which, most Catholics do not, since it basically isn't even used in the meager worship service they provide. That enough for you?( And I didn't even call you any names, not that I ever did.)

[Braveheart91 0]

So thats a "No" you won't engage in a point by point debate. I wasn't referring to names you have called me (you're awfully free with calling people stupid in these threads) but I have read it on other posts and frankly as a Christian you should be ashamed. P.S. Saying something isn't biblical (or moreover anti-biblical) doesn't make it so, it a takes a little more effort than that.

[Loismustdie 0]

So thats a "No" you won't engage in a point by point debate. I wasn't referring to names you have called me (you're awfully free with calling people stupid in these threads) but I have read it on other posts and frankly as a Christian you should be ashamed. P.S. Saying something isn't biblical (or moreover anti-biblical) doesn't make it so, it a takes a little more effort than that.

I gave you quite a few points. Have at it. I call groups stupid, rarely do I center on an individual. Saying something isn't biblical when I know you can't prove that it is is quite frankly all I need to do. Ashamed? Why? For stating what I believe and what I can prove to be biblically true? No shame in that. The problem isn't what I say or even how I say it, it's that you don't agree, which is fine- I have no problem with that. So, here is what you should do, if it really,really bothers you: Take the things I said aren't biblical and prove that they are. That should be easy enough if I am so clearly in the wrong.

[Flack_attack 0]

Where does it say in the Bible that everything in Christianity should be what is exactly enumerated in the Bible? Where does it say in the Bible that people can interpret and analyze scripture, and traditions and rituals?Pretty much Lois, where does it say in the Bible that the Bible and ONLY the Bible should the guidedelines for the Church?One more thing: Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?Don't know? Answer: Jesus Christ.

[Loismustdie 0]

Where does it say in the Bible that everything in Christianity should be what is exactly enumerated in the Bible? Where does it say in the Bible that people can interpret and analyze scripture, and traditions and rituals?Pretty much Lois, where does it say in the Bible that the Bible and ONLY the Bible should the guidedelines for the Church?One more thing: Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?Don't know? Answer: Jesus Christ.

Lol- so far off it's truly deeply saddening to me. Where did he call it the Catholic church? Where did he say that other things than scripture were profitable for doctrine? Gee, let me think- if what is in the bible was the example christ brought, what he showed them to do, hid ideas carried out by his followers- wouldn't it make sense to follow those ideas? Your way, whats the point of even having a word of God, why not just have a notebook and just write whatever you want to? That actually is 99% or religion- some dude with a bible, a highliter and a notebook, adding to and taking away like a wildman.

[Braveheart91 0]

Scripture that supports a teaching tradition outside of the Bible.2 Thessalonians 2:15Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.1 Thessalonians 2:13 And for this reason we too give thanks to God unceasingly, that,in receiving the word of God from hearing us, you received not a human word but, as it truly is, the word of God, which is now at work in you who believe.2 Thessalonians 3:6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. 1 Timothy 3:15But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.Where does the Bible talk about scripture's role?2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.Most protestants (or evangelicals) accept much of the Apostolic tradition (Thats what the Catholic Church calls it) without knowing it.Examples:Sunday worship, not in scripture.THe 27 books of the New Testament- again not in scripture (The tables of contents page is not "inspired") The 27 books of the NT were canonized by a Church council in 397 AD and they were gleened from the 44+ books that had been used throughout the Church's history as scripture. The matter came before the council out of a need to settle disputes between Christians over which texts were scripture and which were not. Same process used in Acts 15, same process used today to settle disputes and clarify doctrine.As to your wisenheimer comment about where Jesus called the Church catholic, its not in there...the term was first written in Clement's epistle to the Corinthians as he was being taken Rome as a prisoner in 95 AD. And for the sake of tit-for-tat, where in the text of scripture can you find the word Bible? And where does it say that the King James translation is the right translation? (poor non-english speaking[ err, reading?] christians must be doomed to an imperfect word of God)What truly deeply saddens me is someone with your lack of reasoning and writing skills has the gall to be condescending to anyone.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sure- traditions taught in the bible. Where were yours again? Useful- thats a good word. Like a how to book might be useful, and if you used the wrong book for the subject- well than that wouldn't be useful at all. I point out the word catholic is not in the bible and I get called a weisenheimer and soon as you said that I was right- well, I just stopped reading. That's all I needed to hear. But, I forget- which one of was condescending again? So, about that list of things that catholics teach but aren't found in the bible, for yor own good, you should get started on that. Either prove they are there or prove they are not, I don't care either way. Heck, if you can show me it exists, great!! Disputation over. Oh, and in the bible it says to worship on the first day of the week, and commands there to be only one worship. Sunday is the first day of the week, I guess you could call it Saturday if you wanted, but that wouldn't explain late Saturday mass, or early Sunday, or late Sunday- see the point. You could pick a day if you wanted I guess- you could say, well catholics first day of the week is saturday, and then have one worship as scripture says, with one collection, but that's not what happens now is it? Not even close.

[Braveheart91 0]

If you believe that you can only believe what is in the Bible, and the Bible does not claim to be the only rule of faith, then you cannot accept a Bible only doctrine. The premise is self-refuting. So the bottom line is: You position crumbles under its own weight, you have to ADD to scripture to "prove" scripture without ADDITION is the sole rule of faith.Simple. unencumbered logic. Now, what does the Bible say (multiple times) is arbiter of truth and teacher of truth? The Church.Also I don't remember any of those passages cited referring to traditions "taught in scripture". Those words or contextual implications aren't there. Furthermore, not all of those letters sent became scripture and not everything said became scripture, yet the Thessalonians were exhorted to hold fast to them (FYI thats means they were binding[required to be accepted] on the believers). As for that list of things the Catholic Church teaches that aren't in the Bible....Not a problem with me becasue...A] Not a one is anti-biblicalB] Each one has historical depth that makes any teaching specific to the Reformation look newfangledC] Makes much more sense in larger context of scripture (Old and New) than any distinctively protestant practice.D] Since the Bible says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth, I trust in it.I noticed you only addressed Sunday worship (Saturday would be the first day) and please be so kind to pass on that scripture reference on the "first day".

[Loismustdie 0]

If you believe that you can only believe what is in the Bible, and the Bible does not claim to be the only rule of faith, then you cannot accept a Bible only doctrine. The premise is self-refuting. So the bottom line is: You position crumbles under its own weight, you have to ADD to scripture to "prove" scripture without ADDITION is the sole rule of faith.Simple. unencumbered logic. Now, what does the Bible say (multiple times) is arbiter of truth and teacher of truth? The Church.Also I don't remember any of those passages cited referring to traditions "taught in scripture". Those words or contextual implications aren't there. Furthermore, not all of those letters sent became scripture and not everything said became scripture, yet the Thessalonians were exhorted to hold fast to them (FYI thats means they were binding[required to be accepted] on the believers). As for that list of things the Catholic Church teaches that aren't in the Bible....Not a problem with me becasue...A] Not a one is anti-biblicalB] Each one has historical depth that makes any teaching specific to the Reformation look newfangledC] Makes much more sense in larger context of scripture (Old and New) than any distinctively protestant practice.D] Since the Bible says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth, I trust in it.I noticed you only addressed Sunday worship (Saturday would be the first day) and please be so kind to pass on that scripture reference on the "first day".

No problem: 1Cor.16[1] Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.[2] Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. As far as the rest of that- I need to sleep. I will address them later. Consider this- many of the things that you teach as tradition, doctrine, and have taught over the years, Jesus himself, the words he taught- well, he didn't teach them. Let's say the church was a car. And you decided to drop the engine out of the car, because you have got it into your head that tying 3000 birds to it and using them to pull, well, that's just as effective. Except it wouldn't be. That's pretty much what is being done here. In all religion - take what works, the perfectly designed engine, and replace it with whatever whim suits the collective. Except your soul is in the balance, and when you finally learn of your failure, it's to late.

[Braveheart91 0]

Still waiting

[Loismustdie 0]

Still waiting

That was so last week. Who are you again?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

" There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Roman Catholic Church; there are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church." -- Archbishop Fulton SheenThank you for starting this post, it was exactly what I was looking for today. I am a cradle Catholic, and went to Catholic School 1st - 8th grade. I was confirmed and went to a few CCD classes although I don't remember going for very long. Once in college my church days were over except for weddings and such. I was secularist in my lifestyle, but always believed in God and Jesus. I would pray but mostly just when in a bind and almost always for myself. I always had a pulling to come back to Jesus, and finally about 4 or 5 years ago I started looking at different churches and prayerfully studying the Bible. After attending an Assemblies of God church for a while, I eventually ended up joining a Methodist Church. I transferred jobs over a year ago and havent' joined a chuch since. I have been studying the Bible however and reading, (CS Lewis mostly) I am finding myself to have almost come full cirlce. I am very close to joining back to the Catholic Church. If you study the Church fathers, you will find it very hard to deny that the Catholic Church is "the Church" that Jesus talked about in the Bible. Several have stated in this post that the Catholic Church today is nothing like the Church Jesus started back in the Day. Well, If you study up the only Church even close or even claims to be that Church is the Catholic Church. Now if you want to say the catholic Church in America is nothing like the Church Jesus started, well, I have a harder time arguing with you. But that is not because the teachings, doctrine, ect are wrong, just the catholics practicing the wrong way. ( I am afraid To time out so I will cont. this in another post)

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I think one of the main problems, as others in the post have eluded to, is that as children in catholic schools we were lead and coached on what to do, how to pray, when to stand up, kneel down, recite what and when, but weren't taught why. So, not having our faith deeply rooted in anything, we are quick to wander away as we come of age. I too thought I wasn't taught anything from the Bible for the years I went to catholic church. The fact is that if you go this Sunday and attend a Catholic Mass any where in this country you will hear for about 30 to 45 minutes of readings, prayers, directly from the Bible. I have many problems with the church still, and am not completely sold yet. As for Mary and the saints (along with angels) , interceding, read about Christ's first miricle in John 2: 1-5. I still don't understand some of the churches teachings in this regard, but am studying and am no longer afraid to honor Mary as the mother of God. Now some Quesstions for braveheart91Did you study independently of Scott Hahn, or are you just putting forth his research here as your own? Just curious, because, your path seems to parallel strikingly with his. The women you talked about earlier in Rev. She was able to escape the dragon( though not on her own). Does this mean she was without sin? I will have more questions later, can't remember them all now.

[theresa113 0]

Zealous Donkey... Your post on this thread captures my original intent. Welcome aboard.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Thank You theresa, I haven't been on full contact website for quite a while, so long I had to reregister. I came specifically for the forum on religion, and to look for a thread exactly like the one you started several months ago. It was at the very top of the list today. I have been reading alot and it is appearing more and more as though all roads do in deed lead to Rome. I am traveling the same road that braveheart has been traveling ( though I am far behind him). theresa, do you wonder why so many Catholics abandon the faith when they come of age. It appears to be an epidemic, an epidemic hopefully the church will try and correct.

[theresa113 0]

Thank You theresa, I haven't been on full contact website for quite a while, so long I had to reregister. I came specifically for the forum on religion, and to look for a thread exactly like the one you started several months ago. It was at the very top of the list today. I have been reading alot and it is appearing more and more as though all roads do in deed lead to Rome. I am traveling the same road that braveheart has been traveling ( though I am far behind him). theresa, do you wonder why so many Catholics abandon the faith when they come of age. It appears to be an epidemic, an epidemic hopefully the church will try and correct.

It is hard for me to say. I know for me there were a few issues. One, I was told that I could not get confirmed after 8 years of CCD classes. My mom was told I ask too many questions and that I was not ready. I felt I was ready because I asked so many questions... granted, some questions I asked were more out of rebellion or attention getting stunts than seriousness but I honestly felt ready for confirmation. Then when my parents divorced and my dad wanted an annulment... well, that sent me over the edge. The thing is, I have never had issues with Faith, just logistics. I loved Mass. I like the repetitiveness. To me, Mass is similar to many eastern practices of chanting and meditating. There were times as a kid that I felt very focused and very connected to God. But then there were times when I felt that the Church had too many rules and that the dogma was getting in the way of the message. I can say this... I have gone through some extremely rough times in my life. I feel I was able to survive some very dark times because of the foundation I received growing up and attending Mass.