Amazing Stat On Taxes And America

[72offsuitt 0]

I looked for a politics forum but couldn't find one, so I decided to post this in this forum.I was doing research on why Americans don't vote for what will benefit themselves when it comes to taxes. For example, why do poor people vote for tax breaks for the rich, ect. I came across the most amazing stat. I am sure everyone has heard the Dem's talk about how Bush is giving the "top 1%" in America these huge tax breaks. Well people this is why people like Bush's plan.From a Time Magazine poll with a +/- of 3% with a C.I of 99%.19% of Americans believe they are in the top 1% in America.20% of Americans believe they will someday be in that top 1% in America.In other words 40% of Americans feel that they are either in or will be in the top 1% of America.I found this mind-blowing. Obviously I appreciate the fact that in this country there is a notion that anyone can become successful, but 40%!!!!!!72offsuit

[keith crime 8]

or as I like to say to republicans i meet - are you rich or retarded?

[72offsuitt 0]

or as I like to say to republicans i meet - are you rich or retarded?

You know, that actually makes a lot of sense.

[keith crime 8]

Republicanism is great for rich people - unfortunately a majority are not rich so they have to convince some people that they are rich and then they tell the rest to hate gay people etc it's really quite clever

[72offsuitt 0]

Republicanism is great for rich people - unfortunately a majority are not rich so they have to convince some people that they are rich and then they tell the rest to hate gay people etc it's really quite clever

Don't you realize that Gay Marriage is more of a threat to this country than anything else? Who cares about the economy, health care, poor, wars, when we have Gay people trying to get married.People get your pitchforks out, were going to war

[robert f 0]

Republicanism is great for rich people - unfortunately a majority are not rich so they have to convince some people that they are rich and then they tell the rest to hate gay people etc it's really quite clever

This not true. I would suck a dick if the price was right.

[princeof56k 0]

From a Time Magazine poll with a +/- of 3% with a C.I of 99%.19% of Americans believe they are in the top 1% in America.20% of Americans believe they will someday be in that top 1% in America.

I'm slightly suprised by the first stat, but not by the second one. Most people have no idea how rich the top 1% really is, and a lot of people think they will be rich someday.The reason the first number actually suprises me is because of how much people actually make in a year. Last time I checked (a few years ago), around 10% of americans made over $100,000 a year (I'm sure my numbers are off but not by much). There's a lot of info on the IRS and Census Brureau web sites about this.If the Time poll used its own readers for the sample, thats going to inflate the numbers. Another explaination of higher than expected numbers, is that when people consider their total assest (House, 401k, everything) they may get the opinion that they are much better off than they actually are. And once again, they have no idea how much in assets the top 1% actually has.

[robert f 0]

Don't your realize that Gay Marriage is more of a threat to this country than anything else? Who cares about the economy, health care, poor, wars, when we have Gay people trying to get married.People get your pitchforks out, were going to war

Really gay marriage is a threat to the country. If everybody would take a same sex partner, then In 100 years there would be no more people in America. I think that is worse then a Nuke attack.Slow death, but America would not exist anymore.

[DonkSlayer 1]

These stats are terribly surprising. Who knew that so many Americans would be ambitious? Who would think they have a chance to change themselves and their lives for the better? Why can't we all just play parts in the machine like good little socialists? The other thing you fail to mention is that, Republicans on the whole (there are more of them than Bush and DeLay) support not only free market and self-determination, but also the social and religious values that many of the "poor" do as well. That's why the South, being on average the poorest region of the country, consistently votes Republican....they are people of Christian faith and ethics/morals.

[72offsuitt 0]

These stats are terribly surprising. Who knew that so many Americans would be ambitious? Who would think they have a chance to change themselves and their lives for the better? Why can't we all just play parts in the machine like good little socialists? The other thing you fail to mention is that, Republicans on the whole (there are more of them than Bush and DeLay) support not only free market and self-determination, but also the social and religious values that many of the "poor" do as well. That's why the South, being on average the poorest region of the country, consistently votes Republican....they are people of Christian faith and ethics/morals.

I appreciate your position, but 19% of American's THINKING they are in the top 1% just shows how uneducated they are when it comes to the matter of money or the economy. I think its great that 20% think they will be there somday, but a "free market"( which we don't have) gives everyone a fair chance as long as we start on the same playing level.( which we don't).

The reason the first number actually suprises me is because of how much people actually make in a year. Last time I checked (a few years ago), around 10% of americans made over $100,000 a year (I'm sure my numbers are off but not by much). There's a lot of info on the IRS and Census Brureau web sites about this.If the Time poll used its own readers for the sample, thats going to inflate the numbers. Another explaination of higher than expected numbers, is that when people consider their total assest (House, 401k, everything) they may get the opinion that they are much better off than they actually are. And once again, they have no idea how much in assets the top 1% actually has.

I agree that American's dont have a clue how much the top 1% has. Most people don't live in New York City and walk by the 25 million dollar penthouses on Central Park which are empty for 9 months of the year because their owners are living in their other houses. Most people believe making a few hundred grand puts them in the top 1%. If you live in North Dakota and make 300,000 grand then you probably are in the top 1%, but 300,000 in New York isn't in the top 1%. I believe people just go to wallmart and see that they can afford anything there and think they are very well off. Until people realize that they don't have homes in Vail and Aspen, they won't realize they aren't even close to the top 1%.Also Time Magazine had a completly random sample that wasn't Time Readers, I could look up the information if you would like.

[princeof56k 0]

Also Time Magazine had a completly random sample that wasn't Time Readers, I could look up the information if you would like.

Thats ok. No need to find info on the poll.It's just that the 19% who are think they are in the top 1% was so suprising its almost unbelievable. The only explanation I can come up is either the poll is flawed or people are completely delusional. Both of those are good possibilities of course.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I appreciate your position, but 19% of American's THINKING they are in the top 1% just shows how uneducated they are when it comes to the matter of money or the economy. I think its great that 20% think they will be there somday, but a "free market"( which we don't have) gives everyone a fair chance as long as we start on the same playing level.( which we don't).

What would constitute a free market to you then? "On the same playing level?"What do you mean by this? The playing field is level....the rules apply the same to us all (although there is always corruption, always will be, in a capitalist society or otherwise). Now if you're a fat kid or a sick kid playing against a gifted child, that's bad luck/good luck. BUT, b/c of our free market, you have at least a chance, which you won't have in a society that is not free and open.On your other point, I'm not sure what you're getting at. The people making $300,000 in South Dakota are still getting the same % tax cut otherwise, b/c I think the tax cuts lifted some burden on those making $120,000 or more, regardless of who makes it. Which raises the question, should someone making $120,000 in NY be taxed as hard as someone making it in SD? "Tax cuts for the rich" is deception anyway unless you're talking SPECIFICALLY about loosened-up income taxes. Estate tax cuts, dividend tax cuts, etc. effect everyone from the middle-class and up. So many people invest these days at relatively modest salary levels, that continuing to tax these activities is really an undue burden, particularly when there is rampant double-taxing going on. Remember, the "rich" are the ones using their money to create jobs.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

So, if I vote for a Republican, I have to be either rich or retarded? Weird. I'm so narrowminded and dim that I thought there was a plethora of issues to consider when choosing a party affiliation.

[mk 11]

The other thing you fail to mention is that, Republicans on the whole (there are more of them than Bush and DeLay) support not only free market and self-determination, but also the social and religious values that many of the "poor" do as well. That's why the South, being on average the poorest region of the country, consistently votes Republican....they are people of Christian faith and ethics/morals.

No, it's just that the Republicans are better at pulling the wool over the Southerners eyes than the Northerners.Let’s talk about those "values" for a minute. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate? Well? Can you guess? It’s Massachusetts, the center of the gay marriage universe. Yes, that’s right, the state you love to tie around the neck of anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond has the lowest divorce rate in the nation. Think that’s just some aberration? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are blue states, and most are in the Northeast, where our values suck so bad. And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to guess? 10 of the top 10 are red-ass we're-so-****ing-moral states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt is doing its part.

So, if I vote for a Republican, I have to be either rich or retarded?

I would add 'evil' to that list. Otherwise, yes. The Republican party of 2006 is wrong on just about everything.

[DonkSlayer 1]

No, it's just that the Republicans are better at pulling the wool over the Southerners eyes than the Northerners.Let’s talk about those "values" for a minute. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate? Well? Can you guess? It’s Massachusetts, the center of the gay marriage universe. Yes, that’s right, the state you love to tie around the neck of anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond has the lowest divorce rate in the nation. Think that’s just some aberration? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are blue states, and most are in the Northeast, where our values suck so bad. And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to guess? 10 of the top 10 are red-ass we're-so-****ing-moral states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt is doing its part.I would add 'evil' to that list. Otherwise, yes. The Republican party of 2006 is wrong on just about everything.

LOL. I didn't say you have to agree with the morals/ethics, but that you have to understand they are not in common with yours. You have done a great service to the Republican Party by holding your own "holier than thou" elitist attitudes. The more you call people stupid, the more they will NOT vote for you.

[72offsuitt 0]

What would constitute a free market to you then? "On the same playing level?"What do you mean by this? The playing field is level....the rules apply the same to us all (although there is always corruption, always will be, in a capitalist society or otherwise). Now if you're a fat kid or a sick kid playing against a gifted child, that's bad luck/good luck. BUT, b/c of our free market, you have at least a chance, which you won't have in a society that is not free and open.

I undestand the classic liberal arguement that we need goverment to stay out of the economy and everyone has an equal chance. In my opinion its not realistic though. Obviously we are not all born into the same situations. If you are born a Kennedy, you will get the best schooling, be admitted to the best colleges( no matter what your grades are) and be given chances no one else is. Now if you are born into a single parent home where the parent is drug user and ect, you won't get the same oppurtunites and equal chance. I agree with John Rawls who had the "veil of ignorace" concept. If you are willing to wake up tomorrow not knowing where you will be at, then you live in a "just" society, in other words, let's say we all just spin a wheel. First person up spins and gets to be a billionaire banker, with a supermodel wife, 3 kids, all the money in the world ect, next person spins and becomes a blind, gay, black man who is homeless, next person ect...What I am saying is that if we had to spin that wheel all of us would want to make sure we had an equal chance once we found out where we were going, in this society we don't.

[mk 11]

LOL. I didn't say you have to agree with the morals/ethics, but that you have to understand they are not in common with yours. You have done a great service to the Republican Party by holding your own "holier than thou" elitist attitudes. The more you call people stupid, the more they will NOT vote for you.

Did you not just read what I wrote? Who's holier than thou? It's the ****ing red staters with their talk of "morals" and "ethics" and "god". But anyone who stops for ten seconds to look at some numbers like divorce rates and murder rates realizes that this notion of the South being a haven of moralistic purity is ****ing bankrupt.

[72offsuitt 0]

On your other point, I'm not sure what you're getting at. The people making $300,000 in South Dakota are still getting the same % tax cut otherwise, b/c I think the tax cuts lifted some burden on those making $120,000 or more, regardless of who makes it. Which raises the question, should someone making $120,000 in NY be taxed as hard as someone making it in SD? "Tax cuts for the rich" is deception anyway unless you're talking SPECIFICALLY about loosened-up income taxes. Estate tax cuts, dividend tax cuts, etc. effect everyone from the middle-class and up. So many people invest these days at relatively modest salary levels, that continuing to tax these activities is really an undue burden, particularly when there is rampant double-taxing going on. Remember, the "rich" are the ones using their money to create jobs.

I was not clear, and I apologize for that. I wasn't trying to refer anyting about tax cuts. I was just trying to say that people in South Dakota who make 300,00 thousand probably think they are in the top 1% nationally, while people who make 300,000 in New York probably don't think they are in the top 1% nationally. Then again I don't eve know the amount of money on average the top 1% has lol.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I would add 'evil' to that list. Otherwise, yes. The Republican party of 2006 is wrong on just about everything.

No.

[mk 11]

No.

And they're correct on???

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

And they're correct on???

Depends on who you ask. If you asked me, I'd say abortion, gay marriage, Iraq, Afghanistan and more. I'm sure most Republicans wouldn't say the same things.

[mk 11]

Depends on who you ask. If you asked me, I'd say abortion, gay marriage, Iraq, Afghanistan and more. I'm sure most Republicans wouldn't say the same things.

These two are surprising coming from you because you seem to be intellectually honest.

[keith crime 8]

Really gay marriage is a threat to the country. If everybody would take a same sex partner, then In 100 years there would be no more people in America. I think that is worse then a Nuke attack.Slow death, but America would not exist anymore.

God please tell me you are joking -- please tell me you are joking - please tell me you are jokingthe 90% of the world that is straight are rutting like bunnies I'm guessing we don't have to worry about keeping the world populatedi'm going to hope you are jokingif you are not - your inane stupidly is 100 times as threateningoh and drawing dead - i'm sure there are people that can make eloquent arguments in support of conservativism - sadly that doesn't include 99 % of the republican contituency Ann Coulter is entertaining in a sick way though

[princeof56k 0]

I was not clear, and I apologize for that. I wasn't trying to refer anyting about tax cuts. I was just trying to say that people in South Dakota who make 300,00 thousand probably think they are in the top 1% nationally, while people who make 300,000 in New York probably don't think they are in the top 1% nationally. Then again I don't eve know the amount of money on average the top 1% has lol.

$300,000 might be pretty close (if we are talking about pure year-to-year income instead of assets). I looked at the IRS for data on individual returns, and while they dont explicitly say so, you can get a rough idea from looking at the data. But you would have to probably look at joint returns as well. I would say $500,000 would put you in. You would be suprised how much money that really is.Based on assets is a little harder to figure out.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

These two are surprising coming from you because you seem to be intellectually honest.

Meh. The gay marriage thing is a bit out of spite, I think. I'm a straight, right handed, WASP, male. No one's ever given me anything or gone out of their way to be a watchdog for me, so I get a bit annoyed at the calls for equality from people who haven't suffered, I suppose. Especially about things so trivial as a marriage certificate.As for Iraq, well, damned if you're an isolationist, damned if you're an imperialist. Might as well try and help someone as you go.

oh and drawing dead - i'm sure there are people that can make eloquent arguments in support of conservativism - sadly that doesn't include 99 % of the republican contituency Ann Coulter is entertaining in a sick way though

The idea of liberalism and conservatism is a farce anymore. I'm an idealist, though. Ann Coulter is a joke. The idea that when you identify yourself as a Republican, Pat Roberts, Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly all pop into someone's head is mildly amusing.