What Causes Tilt?

[dna4ever 2]

Curious from a psychological/human biology point of view what causes the body to Tilt?You know when that 2 outter bad beat comes and you cant even think straight or this one person seems to always catch on you time and time again, etc etc.I know theres been many threads on how to recover from tilt and things people do when they are on tilt to get back to 'zero' or a 'normal' state of mind.I'm thinking if I understand more about what actually causes it one may have a better chance to prevent it or at least tone it down when its happening.Discuss, flame, etc ....

[ShakeZuma 585]

wow, pose a thought provoking question and *crickets chirping*I haven't really thought about this question very much yet, so I'm still not sure of what I think actually causes tilt, per say, but I think that the roots can be found by looking at the ways that we cure it. I'm not sure.Need to think more. I'll be back.

[mk 11]

Physiological effects of anger: * In response to an electrical stimulation to the hypothalamus area of the brain, production of the hormone adrenaline is increased. * Respiration deepens. * The heart beats more rapidly and may palpitate. Blood pressure rises. * The sympathetic nervous system diverts blood from the skin, liver, stomach and intestines to the heart, central nervous system and muscles. * The digestive processes are suspended. * Glucose is freed from reserves in the liver. * Cortisol production is increased in order to depress the immune system. * The spleen contracts and discharges its content of concentrated corpuscles. * Men have an increased supply of the hormone testosterone. * Involvement of amygdala. * Increase in left prefrontal cortical activation.HANDLING ANGER - APPLYING ANTIDOTES Below is a summary of various approaches to anger. They obviously will be most efficient when used with a calm and concentrated mind, either during meditation or at the moment you realize that something needs to be done about your anger. Obviously, the problem during an actual difficult situation is to have a calm and concentrated mind - a regular meditation practice can be of great help then! One of the best ways to really make progress with understanding and changing the functioning of our own mind is to try out analytical meditation. ANTIDOTE 1 - Patience. Patience is the main antidote to anger. As common wisdom says: just count to 100... During this time, any of the below methods can be effective. The most effective method will depend on the actual situation. Especially in our age of rush and intense change, patience may not be seen as a positive quality, but take a minute to think impatience can easily give rise to a general feeling of anger. ANTIDOTE 2 - Realisation of the Noble Truth of Suffering. Once one understands that problems and frustration is a basic fact of life, it can reduce our impatience with our own unrealistic expectations. In other words: nothing is perfect, so don't expect it. Because of my belief that things are or can be perfect, it is easy to feel hurt. ANTIDOTE 3 - Understanding Karma. As explained in the page on Karma, the real reasons for our problems are our own actions, which are in turn caused by our own negative states of mind. If someone makes us angry, it has a sobering effect if we dare to think that the real reasons for this situation are our own past actions, and the person is just a circumstance for our own karma to ripen. ANTIDOTE 4 - Changing or Accepting. Basically, we can find ourselves in two types of unpleasant situations: ones we can change and ones we cannot change. - If I can change the situation, I should do something about it instead of getting all worked-up and angry. Not acting in such a situation will cause frustration in the end. - If I cannot change the situation, I will have to accept it. If I don't, it will only lead to frustration and a negative and unpleasant state of mind, which will make the situation only worse. For some reasons unclear to me, Westerners (including myself) appear to have big problems with accepting unpleasant situations which we cannot change. Could this be a result of impatience (a form of anger) with imperfection (an unrealistic expectation)? Do consider the wisdom in the following remarks (from an online discussion - forgot the writer.): ANTIDOTE 5 - Realistic Analysis. For example: someone accuses me of something. - If it is true, I apparently made a mistake, so I should listen and learn. - If it is untrue, the other person makes a mistake. So what? Nobody is perfect. I also make mistakes, and it is all too easy to label the other as "enemy", in which case a helpful discussion or forgiving becomes difficult. It may also be worthwhile searching for the real underlying reason of the problem. Of special importance is to evaluate one's own role in the situation: my own fears, insecurity, being very unfriendly, or not being blameless (like leaving home much too late for an appointment and blaming the 5 minutes delay of the train). ANTIDOTE - Realisation of Emptiness. See the page on Wisdom. To summarise it briefly, if one deeply realises the emptiness of inherent existence or interdependence of the other person, the situation and oneself, there is nothing to be angry about. The realisation of emptiness is therefore the ultimate means of ridding oneself of unrealistic negative emotions like anger. ANTIDOTE 7 - Equanimity. Equanimity means that one realises the basic equality of all sentient beings; others want happiness, just like I do. Others make mistakes just like I do. Others are confused, angry, attached just like I often am. Is the other person happy in this situation, or just struggling like I am? ANTIDOTE 8 - Openness Be prepared to be open for the motivation of others to do what causes you problems. Talking it over and being prepared to listen can suddenly make a problem acceptable. Did you ever notice the difference when a plane or train has much delay and nobody gives any reasons for it? People very quickly become irritated and hostile. Then when the driver or pilot explains there is a technical defect or an accident, suddenly waiting becomes easier. ANTIDOTE 9 - Relativity. Ask yourself if this situation is actually important enough to spoil your own and other people's mood. Is this problem worth getting upset in a life where death can hit me at any moment? ANTIDOTE 10 - Change Your Motivation. In case a situation is really unacceptable, and another person needs to convinced that something is to be done or changed, there is no need to become upset and angry. It is likely much more efficient if you show of understanding and try to make the other understand the need for change. If one needs to appear angry for some reason to convince the other person of the seriousness of the situation, one can think like a parent acting wrathful to prevent the child from harming itself. In general, to be really effective one needs to reflect on quite a number of aspects in one's own mind like; forgiveness, peace of mind, fears, self-acceptance (no acceptance of others is really possible without self-acceptance), habits, prejudices etc. A list of aspects to start with is given in the page about the mind, under the 26 non-virtuous mental factors. ANTIDOTE 11 - Watch Your Hands. An interesting suggestion from Jon Kabat-Zinn, from 'Wherever You Go, There You Are': "All our hand postures are mudras in that they are associated with subtle or not-so-subtle energies. Take the energy of the fist, for instance. When we get angry, our hands tend to close into fists. Some people unknowingly practice this mudra a lot in their lives. It waters the seeds of anger and violence within you ever time you do it, and they respond by sprouting and growing stronger. The next time you find yourself making fists out of anger, try to bring mindfulness to the inner attitude embodied in a fist. Feel the tension, the hatred, the anger, the aggression, and the fear which it contains. Then, in the midst of your anger, as an experiment, if the person you are angry at is present, try opening your fists and placing the palms together over your heart in the prayer position right in front of him. (Of course, he won't have the slightest idea what you are doing.) Notice what happens to the anger and hurt as you hold this position for even a few moments." ANTIDOTE 12 - Meditation. Last, but certainly not least, meditation can be the ultimate cure to completely eliminating anger from your mind. In the beginning, one can do analytical meditations (like this meditation on anger), but also meditation on compassion, love and forgiving reduce anger as well. Ultimately, the realization of emptiness eradicates all delusions like anger. Just for fun: 'Being mad' is called so as it is truly mad to be so. Stonepeace Grant me the stubbornness to change what I can, the laziness to accept what I cannot, and enough beer to sit around and endlessly discuss the difference between the two. Dick Dunn Did you ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you? But when you take him in a car he sticks his head out the window. Steve Bluestone Anytime you point the finger of blame someone, remember that there are 4 fingers pointing back at you.

[Mercury69 3]

Holy crap, MK!PS: After reading that, I will never tilt again.

[ShakeZuma 585]

very nice post MK. I liked the thing about blowing in the dogs face.What you posted is based on anger, which definately plays into tilt. But wouldn't you say that frustration is another large part of it? Like not necessarily anger at the person or cards, but frustration at them. If you consider the two to be different, I guess. In my experience, as well, I'd say that the frustration and anger, over a period of time (the night) cause me to question my play, adding to the tilt. So even when I know I'm playing my best, I'm still thinking "man I suck". Its a slippery slope.I hope at least some of that made sense, its still very early to me.

[dna4ever 2]

Good stuff MKI'm updating my Tilt leads to Fear. Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering methodology

[mk 11]

Good stuff MKI'm updating my Tilt leads to Fear. Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering methodology

Lol, Yoda. But yeah, my path is much more direct. Tilt leads to anger. Anger leads to chip spewing.

[Mercury69 3]

I must have missed the "blowing a dog" reference.

[jayboogie 0]

I think it's impossible to say that someobdy never tilts, because we all do it. Some people just have a better way of controlling it than others. At some point, everybody has a point where they will start tilting, the key is to avoid that tilting point and generally it happens easier when you are playing out of your comfort zone from playing too high. It would be impossible for me to go on tilt playing 2/4 or something like that these days, because the money would not matter for me enough to care if I lose.Personally, I constantly push my threshold for tilt by playing as high as I can where I won't go broke, but the loss will still sting. After losing a couple dimes a few times, it doesn't hurt as much the next time you do it. The first time you do it, you'll probably feel sick, but after a couple times you should be ok. If you can do this, you stop worrying about the money and you think of chips as just chips and not money.

[thrillsoft 0]

Two books that might help you:The Psychology of Poker by Alan Schoonmakerhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188068525...5Fencoding=UTF8andThe Art of Living by Epictitushttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046087312...glance&n=283155I've really admired Epictitus long before I ever started playing poker. He was a Greek philosopher that essentially believes that it is not the things that happen in your life that make you unhappy but rather your reaction to them that are important. More specifically, it is your own expectations that cause you any unhappiness. He gives an example of a child breaking your favorite cup (or statue or whatever) and you becoming upset. It wasn't the breaking of the cup that made you upset, but your attachment to it and your expectation that you continue to have it. You were not unhappy before you owned the cup. Why should you be unhappy now that its gone?Put in poker terms:Whenever my pocket Aces hold up against pocket Kings when all the money goes in pre-flop for $200, I collect $200. However, I should have only collected $162 because the Kings should crack my Aces about 19% of the time (assuming we don't share suites). I've been OVER-PAID on the hand when I win. I should EXPECT to have them cracked fairly often and not be upset when it does happen as it should every 5th time.How often do you go on tilt when your lottery ticket doesn't hit? Not very often because you didn't EXPECT it to hit.In poker we think in terms of EV (Expected Value) so we come to expect to get paid a certain amount for every decision we make. But most poker players don't realize that the Expected Value isn't paid off in a linear fashion. When our hands hold up, we are being OVER PAID on the hand because we should EXPECT that the hand will not hold up a certain percentage of the time. This tendency is illustrated when we're running well, we say we played the "best poker of our lives" and when the beats his us we say "we got cold-decked". Neither is actually true. The cards were just playing out the way they were supposed to (just not in the consistent way expected them to). That's why old-timers like Doyle and Barry G. can play for huge sums of money without going on tilt. They've played sooooo... many hands over their lives that it's now part of their psychology to accept and even expect to get sucked out on a good deal of the time and doesn't change their outlook on the game or their play. They know that when their hands hold up, they are actually being over-paid by the pot.

[MasterLJ 0]

It's ego. Pure and simple.You got the head cheerleader to the prom with your AA on a A :icon_suit_diamond: 4 :icon_suit_club: 9 :icon_suit_club: flop and Mr. K :icon_suit_club: Q :icon_suit_club: takes her home after he donks all-in on the flop.

[Dratj 0]

I tilt when I'm tired and have been playing for too long. I also tilt when I card dead for hours or I just keep getting sucked out on all night long. It takes a strong person to keep playing their best when things are going bad. When I play my best, I'm a shark or at least a barracuda but when things are going bad, the donkey in me comes out.

[ajs510 122]

I tilt because I suck at poker.

[chester97 0]

i like what lederer said about it. its almost a primal thing as people believe those are "their" chips going over to somebody else when they believe they should be coming back to them. this leads to frustration and ill-advised attempts to get those back, trying to force a situation that isn't there, which makes it worse. people are attached to their chips, because people are attached to their money.

[finztotheleft 0]

Stress releases CortisolCortisol increases belly fatRelicore decreases CortisolYou need Relicore

[PMJackson21 0]

ANTIDOTE 2 - Realisation of the Noble Truth of Suffering.

One of the four Noble truths...Get that off a Buddhist-related web site?Anyone that has a problem with keeping control of their emotions can benefit from reading Zen and the Art of Poker by Larry Phillips.

i like what lederer said about it. its almost a primal thing as people believe those are "their" chips going over to somebody else when they believe they should be coming back to them. this leads to frustration and ill-advised attempts to get those back, trying to force a situation that isn't there, which makes it worse. people are attached to their chips, because people are attached to their money.

Some more of HL's Buddhist tendecies coming out...People, in general, feel that everything should go their way and become angry when things do not. We are inherently self centered and fail to see that sometimes things just aren't going to go our way. Learn to control/ignore your desires and you will become a much more happy person.

[SunDrop 0]

what causes the body to Tilt?

Whiskey.

[MasterLJ 0]

Whiskey.

QFT.I'll add beer to that as well.

[Slipshod 0]

I never tilt and I will kill the first person who says I do with my bare hands!

[SunDrop 0]

QFT.I'll add beer to that as well.

What is QFT?And also I'm fine drinking beer. Actually play better. If I drink hard liquor I might as well roll the money up and put it in my penis hole.

[MasterLJ 0]

Quoted for Truth.As for me, I can't even have one beer and bring my A game. Sooooooo weird. That one beer is enough to change my perception.And if I'm drunk... watch out. I've steam rolled through my entire bankroll after a night at the bars. Nothing like waking up in the morning and thinking... "ooooh ****, I better check my account."

[nritchi3 0]

When i started playing poker I would generally tilt when I got beat plain and simple. Even if i fully deserved to lose the hand i would tilt. Then I learned the game and would only tilt when I got sucked out on or was just getting no cards for long periods of time. Now i think im at the point where it takes a combination of being card dead for a long time or continously gettting sucked out on especially if its the same person over and over. I have defineatly gotten better at dealing with the swings of poker but i don't think ill ever be at the point where ill be able to avoid tilting completely. The only way im ever going to be able to avoid the effects of tilt is to learn to get up from the table when it starts to set in. Although thats easier said than done.

[finztotheleft 0]

Great replies MK and thrillsoft.I can honestly say I do not feel I tilt when I catch a bad beat. If I know I did what I was "supposed" to do and got it in with the best hand, it really doesn't bother me......I understand it's part of the game. I (almost) find it humorous. I can handle getting cold decked as long as I'm playing correctly (or as close to it as I can get, I know I still have a lot to work on).That is not to say that I don't tilt.....I definitely do ! I think I tilt when I know I'm playing like an idiot. Chased a few gutshots or called down with bottom pair. I've lost some money, so then I feel the need to make it back quick. And so begins a bad downward spiral. I get even more careless....looser and calling down praying they are bluffing. I can also play horrendously if I'm in a bad mood, stressed out about hubby or the kids, or in pain (or spaced out from my pain meds)This is in line with an earlier post about anger and pointing at someone else, leaving 4 fingers pointing back at you

[nickforgot 0]

wow what a great threadEverything makes sense now...especially the bit about the greek philospher --dont want to go back and look at the name, but it is very true at least in my poker world and life in generalkeep these posts coming!!

[pbwl11 0]

Tilt:ThereIsn't Luck Tonight