Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Im starting doing some propping stuff, and most of it will require heads up (or extremely short handed) play. When i say low stakes, i mean 1/2 through 3/6.Rake will be irrelevent because of hte fact that im doing the prop thing, so that's one less obstacle.I dont think i'd be completely retarded with HU LHE, but i have very little experience. If there's anyone else out there who'd want to try and learn with me (and you know of any sites that allow private play chip tables), i'd love to open a few play chip table in the next day or so and get some hands in, just to get a better feel for it before i jump in. It's swingy im sure, but ive stockpiled so much from playing 2/4 and bonus whoring that bankroll issues are not at all a concern.Anyone have any advice? Link to post Share on other sites
insano 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Im starting doing some propping stuff, and most of it will require heads up (or extremely short handed) play. When i say low stakes, i mean 1/2 through 3/6.Rake will be irrelevent because of hte fact that im doing the prop thing, so that's one less obstacle.I dont think i'd be completely retarded with HU LHE, but i have very little experience. If there's anyone else out there who'd want to try and learn with me (and you know of any sites that allow private play chip tables), i'd love to open a few play chip table in the next day or so and get some hands in, just to get a better feel for it before i jump in. It's swingy im sure, but ive stockpiled so much from playing 2/4 and bonus whoring that bankroll issues are not at all a concern.Anyone have any advice?Agression. Agression. Agression. That along with Agression and you'll be alright. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 contact:Custom36WrtoJustblazethey'll play you. Link to post Share on other sites
srblan 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Also, pay attention to your opponent's tendencies, and don't try to make really fancy laydowns on the river (the latter killed my heads-up game for a long time). Next time DN is on fullcontact, watch for a while, and see how often they raise from the button. I think I have gotten a lot more aggressive short-handed since observing his heads-up play on a few different occasions. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I mostly want experience. And i will contact those you listed actuary... but i doubt they'd want to play for play chips. Dont they all already play high stakes?Come on - one of you must want to learn along. Ill give you a cookie if you clean me out of all my play chips on stars. Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I've played about 4k hands of HU I'd say, so it's relatively new to me, but I feel like I can hold my own.I was going to say, "Don't bother, rake is bad." but since you're propping that negates that.Obviously with HU play you have to be very aggressive, but it's tough to say in which spots you should be aggressive as a general rule. It also depends on what kind of opponent you are playing. I'm sure you know this already though. I'd say just generally:-you need to show down a lot of hands, most pairs, sometimes ace-high etc. -you need to be able to change gears (not completely necessary, but maximizes your win rate)-metagame becomes VERY important. -emotional control is also very important. The swings can get pretty violent.I'm not really sure I could tell you anything that you wouldn't already be aware of or that you'd see within the first 1000 hands of play with one person. I would be interested in practicing with play money. As long is pride is on the line I think it will simulate real game emotional swings, probably as close as we can get without actually playing for money. I wouldn't mind playing for money either if you decide that would be better. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I dont mind real money, but there's a bit of a problem.if we play on a site like party, the rake is horrendous for both of usif we play on the site that im propping for, you get crushed by the rake, unless...if you sign up as a prop for this site, we cannot play against each other (they pay greater than 100% rakeback, so it would be kind of counterproductive for them to have two props playing against each other heads up)It's up to you. We can do it for money if you like, but instead of playing at money tables, we can just transfer $50 to the winner after a set period (ie: first one to win 100 big bets sends the loser $50 or something along those lines).and we can post some of hte more interesting hands here in strat as a learning experience for everyone. As long as we play with people we trust (maybe im being presumptuous in thinking that im one that would be trusted), we can do it for play chips so there's no rake. Come to think of it, we should just do that for all of our strat tables. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 contact:Custom36WrtoJustblazethey'll play you.I was suggesting players to contact for real money games.I think they all enjoy HU play. Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I really don't mind either, I would say I would get just as much out of it as you would. I just wanted to make sure that it was valuable to both of us in some way, because I think that emotional control is important.Anyway, I know FCP has private table capabilities, and we could probably set up a game that would give us 100 play BBs. I'm fine with the $50, and I guess we can do it on the honor system. It wouldn't really break my heart if you didn't "pay up," as I assume it wouldn't break your heart if I didn't. I know words over the internet are taken with a grain of salt, but $50 doesn't come close to the reputation I'd like to maintain on this forum so that I can continue to progress as a player.Just PM me about the details. I'll probably be free tonight, but if not, I don't have classes tomorrow so we can do it then. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Tomorrow is better for me. Ive got a high stakes $10 tournament to play tonight at some guys house.We'd basically be playing for the equivalent of .25/.50 without a rake. Ill say right now, if i dont pay up after inevitably losing, may the mods ban me from the forum indefinitely. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 AO and Abba that payout structure will alter strategy.just sayin Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 AO and Abba that payout structure will alter strategy.just sayinI'm probably missing something, but I don't see how it alters the strategy.Could you indulge me? Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Back to the original question, you have to be a lot more creative and vary your game more. Mix up betting and check-raising, bluff-raise occasionally, try check-calling down a made hand to the river, just do different things and see how your opponent adjusts. You and your opponent will both be picking up on tendencies that you couldn't possibly spot in a full ring game, so make sure to take advantage of those to the fullest. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 can you clarify why rake does not matter?i had one propping experience. i played $3/6 at a Crypto site. In less than an hour, I earned just over 6 pounds. the game was 2 or 3-handed, and we combined to play well over $50 in rake. don't remember exact numbers, but i'm sure that the total rake was greater than the three of us combined to earn (and i doubt the other two were getting propped). Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 i had one propping experience. i played $3/6 at a Crypto site. In less than an hour, I earned just over 6 pounds. the game was 2 or 3-handed, and we combined to play well over $50 in rake. don't remember exact numbers, but i'm sure that the total rake was greater than the three of us combined to earn (and i doubt the other two were getting propped).100% rakeback. :icon_dance:You were paid in pounds for 3/6 (USD) stakes?6 pounds is roughly 10 bucks US. You contributed roughly 17 to rake (on average) if that was the groups total rake. So what you got was the equivalent of 60% rakeback.AO and Abba that payout structure will alter strategy.just sayinIm curious too.I would have thought that it doesnt.It's basically a freeze out. Strategy doesnt change until you get down to the last few chips where one will inevitably be all in. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 100% rakeback. :icon_dance:You were paid in pounds for 3/6 (USD) stakes?6 pounds is roughly 10 bucks US. You contributed roughly 17 to rake (on average) if that was the groups total rake. So what you got was the equivalent of 60% rakeback.- i think i messed up the quotes, so this is bolded for clarity.yeah, i was paid pounds for a $ game. i think they don't do that anymore, meh. so you get 100% rakeback, or is there also a bonus on top of that? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Yeah, you messed up the bold too...- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 so you get 100% rakeback, or is there also a bonus on top of that?Depends on the site. But it ranges from 90% rakeback to 100% rakeback as a base pay, and as high as 112% rakeback if you get in a present number of hands for the week. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 AO and Abba that payout structure will alter strategy.just sayinyou're playing a cash game for all or noneYou said set number of hands.tell me if you have 10 hands left and are up by 15BB, it won't change your strategy?You should just send the $$$ equivalent, assigning each chip like 50 cents, or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Abba, what exactly is a prop player, and how do you manage to get on as one?- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 www.premierpokerprops.comwww.onlinepropping.comYou play for smaller sites that are trying to get action, start short handed (heads up initially) games and leave when they get full. If you're already looking for heads up play at stakes below 10/20, it's the only way to play without being raped by the rake. It's not difficult to be a big winner when you get 100% rakeback though, and i think i can easily make more HU like this than i can at full ring. I cant berate them though. Not only because it's against the TOS, but there isnt always a plentiful supply of people ready to play HU or 3 handed. you're playing a cash game for all or noneYou said set number of hands.I cant find anything about a set number of hands. But if we did do that, i can see how it would change things...I meant it just as a freezeout. Link to post Share on other sites
dimseven 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 If You're on right now, I'll play HU 0.02-0.04 on Stars, rakefree. Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Alright Abba, let's do this. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Ok, what site Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 FCP? I'll make table? Link to post Share on other sites
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