The State Of Online Poker

[jayboogie 0]

This is coming off a very long session of multi-tabling shorthanded and Heads-Up games and it wasn't a very fun session either as I got absolutely whacked, but managed to recover a bit, but that's besides the point.I'm really getting disturbed with what online poker has become. Yesterday when I was playing HU, sitting at a table by myself, I had about 10 people hit and run on me. These guys would buy in the minimum, jack me for a couple bets and leave. Some of them even taunted me and were like thanks for the chips before leaving. A couple others would leave immediately after winning a big pot. This is just incredibly bad etiquette and it's really bad for the game, I don't know if I'm alone in feeling this way, but it really bothered me yesterday. Of course, I'm pretty used to having it happen, but it's the most annoying feeling when your stuck huge. Unfortunately not much can really be done to prevent this, but it's still sucks to have this constantly happening.I guess you could say you should avoid playing these hit and run artists, but the problem is so many people who play HU are like this. The only way you can get them playing longer is to get them stuck. Unfortunately with the way I was running, I was losing instantly against every single one of them. 10 big bets might not be all that much, but when you play 7 or 8 different people and they all get up that amount in 10 mins of play, it adds up. Another thing I'm seeing more and more of is ratholing. I've seen so many people win a couple big pots, leave, buy back in for the minimum. I really don't think this should be even allowed and I'm positive sites could do something about this if they chose to. I guess it's especially annoying when most of that money he takes off the table is yours and you won't have a chance to win it back.Not to even mention the amount of people who talk smack and try to rub it in peoples faces anytime they lose a pot. This is to be expected of course, but it's amazing what people will say when in front of a computer.On the site I play on which is not huge, I get to know most of the players on there as I've usually played with most of them at 1 point or another. There are just a ton of nits around, I'm playing a donkey HU and they see a good game and jump right into the action, but I'm the one doing the work by getting the donkey to play in the game by giving him action HU. What bothers me most is when the donkey leaves, the nit will play a couple hands, win a big pot or 2 and then sit out on me. I can respect the fact that you don't want to play me without an edge, but don't sit in a couple hands, try to make a quick buck against me and then sit out. Anyways, that's pretty long, but if you read through it all, that's cool. I just had probably the worst session I've ever had and with the ones I've had before that's saying a lot. I generally don't like to even talk much about how well I'm doing or anything like that, but this was one of those subjects that was eating me inside and I felt it needed to come out.

[bobbywithani 0]

I don't think of Hit and Running as being bad for poker, it is just playing bad poker. Etiquitte? This is a game where we are trying to take each others money, If someone feels the only way they can do that succesfully is by only playing a few hands with you, then so be it. This is gambling, not be my friend and play some hands together.

[HangukMiguk 8]

Also...I watched a dude on AJPoker rathole his way to thousands on Champs...quite amazing and disgusting.Not naming names, and not condoning it at all.But still, don't forget who you're playing against: greedy people.

[herokid7 0]

I understand the frustration on this but Doyle said in Super/System 2 that it's their money once they've won it, so they can leave when they please. You've got to understand that not everyone understands what"multi-tabling" is, and those who don't probably have low bankrolls and consider a little win the most amazing thing ever, and if there's one thing I've learned since playing online poker for money, is that there is no such thing as etiquette, as sad as that may be. I totally agree with the assessmnet of the table talk. Some people are just plain rude. But, as long as there are jerks in the world the more we'll all get cussed out win we beat them for a pot.

[antethief 0]

I'm 90% sure the sites I play at don't allow ratholing (Ladbrokes and Prima). If u try to sit down at a table after playing hands there, the minimum u can sit down with is the amount you left with on that specific table.As for hit and runner's, I guess that's the price you pay for being able to find a game practically 24/7 (depending what limits you play...don't get me wrong I'm not condoning hit&run, I hate it as much as the next decent player). I think the edge gained from being able to find games of all different types at the click of a button, far outweighs the negatives of a few who target you in this manner.People hit and run because they can; there really isn't much need to lose EV to gain action from fish in the same way that there is live. It's a shame, but it's just one of the small negatives of the cashcow that is online poker.

[Abbaddabba 0]

People who do it systematically are generally bad players.They have to pay their blinds like anyone else. They cant jump in without posting a big. When they leave prematurely, they're often giving up free hands which benefits the table in an extremely marginal way. If you want to split hairs, it often helps you rather than hurts you.

[PimpRock 0]

I think I agree with a lot of what your saying and rat holing in particular enfuriates me... I went on a crusade at a smaller site where I know the CEO to have rat holing outlawed and it was a couple of months later.What I do find interesting is that your complaining about all these practices but I find multi tablers do as much to kill the action as anyone. I do it and most winning players probably do but when you waiting for people to make decisions on the table and taking ages, its frustrating. Also, serious multi tablers will only play a range of hands so, for example, if you have 2 other people at the table who are playing one hand in 15, it reduces the people / money in the pot and again contributes to having a whole lot less action and tougher tables. I know there are ways to counter the multi tablers (stealing more blinds etc) but in general, I think they can damage some games.

[semaj550 0]

I've been playing a lot of heads up on UB lately, mostly 1/2. There have been a few guys that that hit me for like $5, call me a sucker and then take off. Yeah it pisses me right off because they're usually fishy enough that I could have taken their whole stack pretty quickly if I didn't lose a decent sized pot in the first couple of hands.Poker is one long game though. It doesn't matter who your last hand was against or how many you played against them (well it does from an information perspective but not really from a win rate perspective), just play every hand at the top of your game and you'll do fine.Yeah, I tend to do better in longer heads up matches than shorter ones because it usually takes a while to soften people up with my tricky play but over 1 or two hands I've got just a good a shot to win the $5 as these hit and run idiots do.Keep in mind you're free to get up from the table at any time too. Ratholing is just down right low but there are lots of down right low people in poker. Just gotta learn how to deal with them. Anyone who is dumb enough to pull a move like that is dumb enough to lose a lot of money to you in the long run.

[antethief 0]

I think I agree with a lot of what your saying and rat holing in particular enfuriates me... I went on a crusade at a smaller site where I know the CEO to have rat holing outlawed and it was a couple of months later.What I do find interesting is that your complaining about all these practices but I find multi tablers do as much to kill the action as anyone. I do it and most winning players probably do but when you waiting for people to make decisions on the table and taking ages, its frustrating. Also, serious multi tablers will only play a range of hands so, for example, if you have 2 other people at the table who are playing one hand in 15, it reduces the people / money in the pot and again contributes to having a whole lot less action and tougher tables. I know there are ways to counter the multi tablers (stealing more blinds etc) but in general, I think they can damage some games.

Definitely. I for one try and avoid NL cashtables with known multitablers. Games often feel dead with no action, plus they are liable to quit if and when the game becomes shorthanded.

[Arkanoid 0]

I f'n hate the hit n run artists, but I never avoid playing them HU. I give a lot of action, therefore I can always get a game. My best strat vs them is to take thier buy in and then move up a limit and sit. Sure enough, they show up. Repeat and Rinse...

[jayboogie 0]

I really don't see what the problem with multi-tabling is. I multi-table 4 games at least all the time, sometimes more and I'm usually playing HU or shorthanded. I have no problem playing 4 HU games at once and I don't slow the game down either. You're going to have people that are slow making decisions playing 1 table or have people that are slow because of a crappy connection, it just happens.Obviously, they gain no long-term advantage by hit and running from an EV standpoint. I've also come to expect it and accept it, trust me I've seen just about everything that can happen occur, nothing really surprises me anymore. I guess what upsets me most is that I miss out on a money making opportunity when they hit and run, normally I don't really care when this happens at a couple tables, but to have this happen over 10 times yesterday and to be running bad in my other games, it really ticked me off.

[semaj550 0]

I really don't see what the problem with multi-tabling is. I multi-table 4 games at least all the time, sometimes more and I'm usually playing HU or shorthanded. I have no problem playing 4 HU games at once and I don't slow the game down either. You're going to have people that are slow making decisions playing 1 table or have people that are slow because of a crappy connection, it just happens.Obviously, they gain no long-term advantage by hit and running from an EV standpoint. I've also come to expect it and accept it, trust me I've seen just about everything that can happen occur, nothing really surprises me anymore. I guess what upsets me most is that I miss out on a money making opportunity when they hit and run, normally I don't really care when this happens at a couple tables, but to have this happen over 10 times yesterday and to be running bad in my other games, it really ticked me off.

Perfectly understandable, just get through the rough patch and go back to beating the game. As you know there are lots of soft HU games out there.

[jayboogie 0]

I f'n hate the hit n run artists, but I never avoid playing them HU. I give a lot of action, therefore I can always get a game. My best strat vs them is to take thier buy in and then move up a limit and sit. Sure enough, they show up. Repeat and Rinse...

This works great when you can actually get up ahead early, unfortunately the nature of HU games is that it's 50/50 as to who gets ahead in the match after a couple hands. If I can get ahead in a HU game, I generally will crush my opponent for a ton of bets as they generally play much worst when they're stuck.

[blueodum 0]

I've played NL cash games at FT and the B2B network and neither allow ratholing.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Also, serious multi tablers will only play a range of hands so, for example, if you have 2 other people at the table who are playing one hand in 15, it reduces the people / money in the pot and again contributes to having a whole lot less action and tougher tables.

A table filled with people who play only 1/15 hands should be pretty easy to beat.