The Christian Poker Player

[srblan 0]

Leviticus 18:22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.I agree with most of everything you said DN, but I think this demonstrates a pretty strong difference.

I am not a Christian (I'm Jewish, so the use of this verse always interests me), but I have read most of this thread with a great deal of fascination anyway. Arriving at this passage, I can chime in, though. This is another case of lost in translation or selective translation for political purposes. The original Hebrew word that is translated to abomination is the same word that is used to describe eating shellfish. It is more intended to mean "unclean" (according to my understanding) than the word abomination would have you believe. Throughout the history of its existence, many mistranslations have occurred. Have you ever noticed that Michelangelo's "Moses" has horns? The words for "rays of light" and "horns" are one letter off and the mistranslation (I believe it was in the Vulgate) caused this little mistake.

[gilbertology 0]

I wonder what Jesus himself would think of all this? What would Jesus do if he was at one of these rallies and saw this? My guess: he would open his arms to the gays and lesbians and offer comfort and grace, to the self-righteous, I believe he would absolutely chastise them. Everyone has their own set of specific demons that will trigger sin. Recognizing that, and doing something about it is one way to recieve grace.

I'm not a very religious person, but I agree with this first statement. I thought Christianity is supposed to be about love, but many conservative Christians preach more hate than love. If Jesus/God could see what some die-hard "Christians" do in his name, such as the hate they show at anti-gay or anti-anything Christian rallies, I'm sure he would rather embrace those that have love in their soul and give that love to others.The second statement is just good advice for religious people and atheists alike. If people just followed this rule, there'd be less trouble in the world.

[srblan 0]

I also can't figure out why so much Bingo would be played at churches if it is considered such a sin to gamble.

[chrozzo 19]

Lie could just mean sleep. Also, really what is an abomination?

Well, in biblical times, "lie" meant had sex with, so thats that. An abomination is something that causes disgust in a certain group or faith group. Disgust is a common reaction, as it is with most sins.

[srblan 0]

Well, in biblical times, "lie" meant had sex with, so thats that. An abomination is something that causes disgust in a certain group or faith group. Disgust is a common reaction, as it is with most sins.

The translations I've read usually use "know" to mean have sex.

[Hobbes 1]

Leviticus 18:22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.I agree with most of everything you said DN, but I think this demonstrates a pretty strong difference.

Leviticus 19:27You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.

[chrozzo 19]

Leviticus 19:27You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.

does it say it is an abomination though? all these commandments in this book are part of the old covenant, I pu tthat one in there to show that there was a reference to homosexuality in the bible when many of these posts in this thread said there was not.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Leviticus 18:22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.I agree with most of everything you said DN, but I think this demonstrates a pretty strong difference.

The fact that it's called an abomination doesn't mean that it is any more severe than a sin that isn't referred to as an abomination.

[srblan 0]

does it say it is an abomination though? all these commandments in this book are part of the old covenant, I pu tthat one in there to show that there was a reference to homosexuality in the bible when many of these posts in this thread said there was not.

I think that it does. I found an article talking about the translation issues here.

[lamann1 0]

I personally am an athiest. I have had some life experiences that challenged my previously strong faith. That is neither here, nor there. The bottom line for me is that regardless of that position I respect and appreciate anyone who maintains their faith and isn't ashamed to admit it is a bedrock of their life. I think that many biblical passages can mean many things to many people, but I truly think that all those roads of interpretation lead to the same place. As Daniel wrote, one path may be fine for someone and not so good for another person. Each person in their relationship with god must find their way along that path and I think to say generically that gambling isn't a proper path is a stretch.

[chrozzo 19]

Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the results of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34). So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate them, even though they are both sinful in God’s sight. It pretty much comes down to what you believe, as always. Many BELIEVE that having homosexual thoughts is a sin just as acting on those thoughts is a sin. And just in case you still doubt the homosexuality apearances in the bible...even in the new covenant...Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."1 Corinthians 6:9"Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching."1 Timothy 1:9-10(im putting this one in because although I do not consider crossdressing as bad as homosexual acts it is quite nasty)"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."Deuteronomy 20:5

[srblan 0]

Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the results of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34). So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate them, even though they are both sinful in God’s sight. It pretty much comes down to what you believe, as always. Many BELIEVE that having homosexual thoughts is a sin just as acting on those thoughts is a sin. And just in case you still doubt the homosexuality apearances in the bible...even in the new covenant...Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."1 Corinthians 6:9"Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching."1 Timothy 1:9-10(im putting this one in because although I do not consider crossdressing as bad as homosexual acts it is quite nasty)"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."Deuteronomy 20:5

The last passage you quoted forbids women from wearing pants... Not sure how currently relevant it is.

[chrozzo 19]

The last passage you quoted forbids women from wearing pants... Not sure how currently relevant it is.

read the middle part of the passage again

[Mattnxtc 0]

There is evidence in the New Testament that the only times when Jesus became angry towards people was when he was yelling at the religious leaders who felt that they were better than every one else. I think that if he attended a gay rally he would act in much the same way if so-called Christians were wrongly speaking for him.

I would add to this that Jesus was angry with the vendors doing business in the temple and He kicked them out. I do agree...He would not be blowing up abortion clinics or start crusades or this and that...Unfortunately people feel motivated to do "Gods work" and you know what they say about good intentionsI do agree that in the easiest sense sin is sin. In our eyes we justify it by measures and this and that...but what we forget is that we are not being judged by our standards. We are being judged by God's standards and His standard is perfection. So if you sin once u are no longer perfect. Theres no reason to persecute people as it is only limiting the range of ur own personal ministry. Each person you piss off is one less that can help ur ministry grow.

[srblan 0]

read the middle part of the passage again

I read it and I understand that it forbids men from dressing as women, but if you take it as a whole, it seems like it might be outdated. Note that there are passages elsewhere forbidding mixing different types of fabric and lots of other things that are no longer considered relevant. It seems strange to me to pick and choose which parts will be considered still in effect based on the end goal. In other words, since the goal is forbid homosexuality as a sin, a passage is quoted. However, none of the other laws set out in the surrounding passages are followed because they have no specific relevance to any agenda.

[chrozzo 19]

I read it and I understand that it forbids men from dressing as women, but if you take it as a whole, it seems like it might be outdated. Note that there are passages elsewhere forbidding mixing different types of fabric and lots of other things that are no longer considered relevant. It seems strange to me to pick and choose which parts will be considered still in effect based on the end goal. In other words, since the goal is forbid homosexuality as a sin, a passage is quoted. However, none of the other laws set out in the surrounding passages are followed because they have no specific relevance to any agenda.

it was just a joke putting that one in, I am actually watching Birdcage right now and that popped up and it just made me laugh

[srblan 0]

it was just a joke putting that one in, I am actually watching Birdcage right now and that popped up and it just made me laugh

Okay Took it too seriously, I guess.

[herokid7 0]

The fact that it's called an abomination doesn't mean that it is any more severe than a sin that isn't referred to as an abomination.

I think you're right about most things you've mentioned, Daniel. Christians you protest abortion clinics and commit hate crimes toward gays give the rest of us a bad name. God loves people who have abortions and are gay and we should too. Most Christians forget the point of why they are upset with gays and people who commit sins such as that. We are upset with homosexuals, and non-believers in general, because we know they are missing out on a wonderful gift from God, and a better life. It is not God's job to tell people where they are at fault. It is our job to communicate the love of God and for them to leave sin behind. It is our job to witness to, or evangelize, non-Christians because we love them. We can do that in way without condemning them or being "preachy." I also agree that homosexuality is no more of a sin than anything else, but the bad part about that is homosexuality is a LIFESTYLE of sin. When you or I sin, we ask for forgiveness and try not to do it again. Homosexuality requires one to believe they are doing nothing wrong. That is a dangerous way to live, spiritually speaking. So I agree with you when you say that Christians who hate gays are sinning just as much as they are, I disagree when you say we shouldn't confront them with a heart of love.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Take an anthropology class or two. You'll see what I'm talking about. A society in which the government is less powerful has gods that are the same way. If a society has multiple leaders they worship multiple gods. If their government is an autocracy they have one all-powerful god. The religion is a reflection of the government. It doesn't sound at all like a conspiracy theory to me. It's not far fetched at all.

Some of the most oppressive and powerful governments in recent history have been largely secular. I suppose that you're arguing that they're trying to make up for their lack of religious control through more direct control? What 'society' is the US?Let me note that governments have flavored religions with denominations. However, people like to make the stronger argument that governments establish religions, but I've yet to see convincing historical evidence.

I just don't think God exists. It isn't logical.

I believe logic exists. In my opinion, logic isn't logical outside of a universe without a higher power.As for the OP, several have already noted this, but I think that Romans 8:9 ("Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." NIV) is very relevant to your situation. Poker for a Christian may or may not be acceptable (I think that it is), but this is obviously a stumbling block for your girlfriend, so it needs to be resolved.

[crowTrobot 2]

In my opinion, logic isn't logical outside of a universe without a higher power.

logically that makes no sense

[CobaltBlue 662]

logically that makes no sense

crow, what is logic and where does it come from?Alternatively, who is your daddy and what does he do?Additionally, while the topic has definitely diverged somewhat, I don't think it's off-topic enough for a move.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

It's been moved to a new forum dedicated to Religion.

[natewood3 0]

For those of you who care about the issue of being a Christian AND playing poker for a living, I would encourage you to get a book by Randy Alcon, Money, Possessions, and Eternity.This book gives a Biblical view on money and possessions, and although he is against "gambling," he is more speaking of lottery tickets and that type of thing. He also discusses investing and whether that is gambling or not. For Christians who want to glorify God, but yet still believe that playing poker for a living is not a sin, then this book should definitely be read...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084235360...glance&n=283155It is only a $10 book, so if you can afford to play poker, then you can surely afford the book. If you are serious about being a Christian and playing poker, then you can surely take the time to read the book... It will be well worth your time...

[Greentvdinner 0]

Based on scripture, I don't see one iota of a difference between pre-marital STRAIGHT sex and pre-marital homosexual sex.

The difference I see is that pre-marital straight sex is one sin, whereas pre-marital homosexual sex is two sins.

[natewood3 0]

Someone asked, "What is logic"? I would ask if the laws of logic are unchanging, universal, and abstract? How does one account for laws of logic, science, or morality, or any law of any sort?