Question? Re-buys And Add-ons?

[toddkrit 0]

Im wondering everyones opinion on rebuys and add ons in tournys. Im mostly talking home tournys. Ok, I understand that it gets more money in the pot but this seems crazy to me. Lets take the add ons. IMO it should be an even starting playing field. What other competion starts like this?? It would be like someone in a race throws in an extra $20 and they get 3 seconds off their ending time. Rebuys would be like George Steinbrenner paying in for the Yankees if they lost the first 4 games of the World Series. I didnt articulate the points very well but I hope you guys get the picture. Id appreciate peoples opinions on this.Thanks

[AlphaOmega 0]

Since everyone has the ability to re-buy or add-on, and since the re-buy and add-on quality of the tournament is explicitly stated in the tournament description, I don't think it's unfair.The analogies are no good. Poker is based on money. There is no level playing field, or else there'd be no reason to play.

[toddkrit 0]

I agree the analogies arent very good. I also agree that their isnt a level playing field. I also believe that bad players can increase the chances of hitting their bad beats against people if they have an unlimited amount of chances to rebuy during a certain period. Obviously I want them to do that in a cash game. In a tourny I want to focus on the other people still in the tourny that i want out. If everytime someone gets out they get right back in........now i have a smaller chance of making it farther.If there is a buy in for $120 for 10,000 in chips and you can get another 5000 for $50 as an add on it would seem you would have to do the add on to be competative. Why not just have it be a $170 buy in and really see who the best player is?

[SPADES21 0]

I agree the analogies arent very good. I also agree that their isnt a level playing field. I also believe that bad players can increase the chances of hitting their bad beats against people if they have an unlimited amount of chances to rebuy during a certain period. Obviously I want them to do that in a cash game. In a tourny I want to focus on the other people still in the tourny that i want out. If everytime someone gets out they get right back in........now i have a smaller chance of making it farther.If there is a buy in for $120 for 10,000 in chips and you can get another 5000 for $50 as an add on it would seem you would have to do the add on to be competative. Why not just have it be a $170 buy in and really see who the best player is?

this is a good thing. you want bad players to get more money in so you can take it twice or three times even.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Most rebuys are for the first hour, and near the later parts of the hour, a rebuy will only give you about 10 M, so most of the time these donkey rebuyers just donate it back into the field.Add-ons and rebuys encourage a different style than a normal buy-in tourny, as generally the action is a lot faster and there are a lot more chips in play near the end, which makes for a more solid indication of the most skilled players.In that respect, adding more chips into play will actually determine the best player more often, and with less variance, than a tournament format with less amount of chips. For this reason, your statement about "well, let's see who the best player is" is void because, technically, we are finding more frequently who the better players are in a tournament with lots of chips. We also account for short-term variance (somewhat) through the rebuy feature, which can allow a more skilled player to rebuy after a bad beat. This also seems to enhance the argument as it being a tournament that suits the more skilled players.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

For someone with such a great avatar, I hate to disagree with you, but...

[toddkrit 0]

Ive also seen these rebuy people end up in the money way too often though.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Ive also seen these rebuy people end up in the money way too often though.

-Sample size. -Maybe their competition was even worse.

[toddkrit 0]

Most rebuys are for the first hour, and near the later parts of the hour, a rebuy will only give you about 10 M, so most of the time these donkey rebuyers just donate it back into the field.Add-ons and rebuys encourage a different style than a normal buy-in tourny, as generally the action is a lot faster and there are a lot more chips in play near the end, which makes for a more solid indication of the most skilled players.In that respect, adding more chips into play will actually determine the best player more often, and with less variance, than a tournament format with less amount of chips. For this reason, your statement about "well, let's see who the best player is" is void because, technically, we are finding more frequently who the better players are in a tournament with lots of chips. We also account for short-term variance (somewhat) through the rebuy feature, which can allow a more skilled player to rebuy after a bad beat. This also seems to enhance the argument as it being a tournament that suits the more skilled players.

It just seems to me its like raising a pot when you have aces in the hole. Aces are a favorite 85.5% of the time against any one random hand.......but only 58.8% against 4 random hands. So I personally like to limit my competition.. The more people that are rebuying seems to give me less of a chance to make it to the money.By the way.....thanks for the input. Im just trying to learn here. Whats the best way to play in these games. Super tight?

[yergan 0]

Since everyone has the ability to re-buy or add-on, and since the re-buy and add-on quality of the tournament is explicitly stated in the tournament description, I don't think it's unfair.The analogies are no good. Poker is based on money. There is no level playing field, or else there'd be no reason to play.

I agree, the analogies are useless.A better comparison would be to substitutions in a match. Everyone knows its going to happen, its part of the game.If you are a bad team (player) to begin with, then no amount of substitutes (rebuys) will help you.

[toddkrit 0]

I agree, the analogies are useless.A better comparison would be to substitutions in a match. Everyone knows its going to happen, its part of the game.If you are a bad team (player) to begin with, then no amount of substitutes (rebuys) will help you.

Can you explain? Do you mean like a basketball game. People coming off the bench, etc.?

[yergan 0]

Can you explain? Do you mean like a basketball game. People coming off the bench, etc.?

Exactly. Now Im not so sure if it fits, it seemed right when I was writing it!!

[Pupsta 0]

i used to hate rebuys because i'm a tighter player in the early rounds, then i realized how great they are because it means there are more chips in play compared to the blinds, giving everyone deeper stacks, and most people can't adjust from the loose rebuy style to a tighter style right after rebuys, so it's a lot of dead $.

[AlphaOmega 0]

That analogy is better.It simply boils down to how everybody participating has the option to rebuy or add on, and are told ahead of time. That destroys the unfairness aspect of an argument and my previous posts illustrate how rebuy tournaments offer a different style of play, perhaps even more geared towards a skilled player.The style of play with rebuys will vary, and it largely depends on why you are there. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, then just play tight and take the rebuying maniacs chips.If you are there to win, you should include a rebuy gameplan as far as your strategy goes. Often times I will try to accumulate many chips by playing a somewhat looser style in the first hour, when I can rebuy if things don't go as planned. Not maniacal all-in loose, but looser nonetheless.

i used to hate rebuys because i'm a tighter player in the early rounds, then i realized how great they are because it means there are more chips in play compared to the blinds, giving everyone deeper stacks, and most people can't adjust from the loose rebuy style to a tighter style right after rebuys, so it's a lot of dead $.

I agree completely and share this experience with rebuy tournaments.

[Vick12 0]

Rebuys are great for many types of players, but to answer your question as to what the benefit of putting many chips into play in hour 1 is simple.1st...the larger the stack you can build gives you the ability to make many plays along the way obv, but there is a less ovious reason for putting chips into play.If you are a "pro" like Bax for example and you draw a random table w/ 8 donks, he wants to put as many chips into play as possible. That way he likely prevents his table from breaking since his table will have plenty of chips. So even if he doesn't begin with all of them, he will just get them back later by outplaying people.It's good for the "tighter" player that Pupsta refers to, because many donkeys will push bad hands into their monsters in hour 1 and build them stacks. Then since many can't let the rebuy madness go in hour 2, the tight player can quickly build his stack w/ dead money.It's even good for the loose donkey! This guy gets his dream of playing any 2 cards and hitting jackpots! If he gets really lucky he will build such a large stack he will feel invincible in hour 2...hmmm I see K2 SOOOOOTED...ok I will call your raise Mr. Tightwad in seat 2!!!If the rebuy isn't your thing and you don't get them, there are only a zillion other tourney options!!!

[vonteego3 0]

It just seems to me its like raising a pot when you have aces in the hole. Aces are a favorite 85.5% of the time against any one random hand.......but only 58.8% against 4 random hands. So I personally like to limit my competition.. The more people that are rebuying seems to give me less of a chance to make it to the money.By the way.....thanks for the input. Im just trying to learn here. Whats the best way to play in these games. Super tight?

yes, exactly. well, except... exactly the opposite.

[lind0 0]

I find the best strategy for rebuy tourneys is to just rebuy immediately if you can. Most tournaments let you rebuy any time you have less than or equal to the amount of chips you started with. Most players don't do this or don't know you can do this, so by rebuying immediately you get to start with double the chips of almost everyone else at the table. For a strong player, that's a huge advantage. The extra chips give you more time to use your skill to your advantage, and allow you to sit back and pick people off with your legimate hands while many of your opponents play like maniacs in a desperate attempt to double up. I also recommend doing the add-on if there is one. Extra chips never hurt. The only time I don't do it is if I'm already pretty low stacked and the extra chips won't help that much anyway. There's no point in sinking more money into a tournament where you'll still be low stacked even if you add on. If you aren't comfortable (or if your bankroll isn't comfortable) putting up atleast one rebuy and an add-on, you should probably just stick to a freezeout. You'll be at too much of a disadvantage against the players that are taking advantage of the rebuy structure.

[RDog 0]

Rebuy tourney's are not for everyone. Do not, I repeat, do not, go into a rebuy tourney expecting to play "real poker" in the first hour. Almost every tourney I get scolded by some Jo Schmo who has no idea how to play a rebuy at it's optimal level. Always gives me a chuckle as I know he will be pushing it to make the money as I play for the final table. Basically I play a lot of pots, hoping to hit a monster and push. Funny how often you get called even after showing down hands. It works great on Party's rebuys where you can rebuy in the middle of a hand. Another thing that I think gets overlooked a bit is that it allows a relatively tight player like me to go absolutely crazy for an hour and it's more fun than just about anything this side of a final table. Playing in a lot of these has definitely helped my post flop play as well since you have many more marginal decisions to make. I am normally a tight player and I LOVE rebuys cause for one hour I am a maniac. Then I go back to my normal play with a big stack once the rebuy period is over.

[toddkrit 0]

I guess my big problem is not online. I know there are a TON of games to choose from. Its the fact that I`m not close to a B&M and I really love to play live. It seems as though alot of the home games in my area are turning into rebuy and add on heaven. It gives the maniacs a better chance of busting out the guys who used to take their money week after week.Thanks for all of the posts guys.

[NOFX_PUNK 0]

Also, look at that guy who plays on Stars, (I can't remember his name but there was a post about him a week or two ago). He gives the impression of being a complete amateur in the early stages taking loads of rebuys, the tactic here however is giving other people a load of chips you know you can win back from them. He is making his table the table with the most money on it. When the rebuys end and he brings out his A-game he wins all the money back off the fish before his table collapses and he can coast to the final table. If you check his Pokerdb stats he has made something like $471k since he debuted on pokerstars!can anyone help with the name? Con't tell me to use the search function 'cos if I can't search for something I don't know the name of and if I did know the name I wouldn't have to search....Lol!EDIT: it's jonnybax

[Vick12 0]

Also, look at that guy who plays on Stars, (I can't remember his name but there was a post about him a week or two ago). He gives the impression of being a complete amateur in the early stages taking loads of rebuys, the tactic here however is giving other people a load of chips you know you can win back from them. He is making his table the table with the most money on it. When the rebuys end and he brings out his A-game he wins all the money back off the fish before his table collapses and he can coast to the final table. If you check his Pokerdb stats he has made something like $471k since he debuted on pokerstars!can anyone help with the name? Con't tell me to use the search function 'cos if I can't search for something I don't know the name of and if I did know the name I wouldn't have to search....Lol!EDIT: it's jonnybax

Where did I hear this before....

Rebuys are great for many types of players, but to answer your question as to what the benefit of putting many chips into play in hour 1 is simple.1st...the larger the stack you can build gives you the ability to make many plays along the way obv, but there is a less ovious reason for putting chips into play.If you are a "pro" like Bax for example and you draw a random table w/ 8 donks, he wants to put as many chips into play as possible. That way he likely prevents his table from breaking since his table will have plenty of chips. So even if he doesn't begin with all of them, he will just get them back later by outplaying people.It's good for the "tighter" player that Pupsta refers to, because many donkeys will push bad hands into their monsters in hour 1 and build them stacks. Then since many can't let the rebuy madness go in hour 2, the tight player can quickly build his stack w/ dead money.It's even good for the loose donkey! This guy gets his dream of playing any 2 cards and hitting jackpots! If he gets really lucky he will build such a large stack he will feel invincible in hour 2...hmmm I see K2 SOOOOOTED...ok I will call your raise Mr. Tightwad in seat 2!!!If the rebuy isn't your thing and you don't get them, there are only a zillion other tourney options!!!

Oh yes...this is where I heard that.