2/4 Ak Flop Play Unimproved

[postflopfbg 0]

PARTY 2/4 full (8 handed)No reads (sorry, not my hand)Dealt to Hero AsKcEP1 calls, fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO calls, button folds, SB folds, BB calls, EP1 calls.Flop (9SB) Jc Th 9cBB checks, EP checks, Hero ....

[hotbacon 0]

Check.You're basically never picking the pot up with a bet.Good possibility of being raisedIf co calls, no freecard possiblity on turn.

[speedz99 145]

Check.You're basically never picking the pot up with a bet.Good possibility of being raisedIf co calls, no freecard possiblity on turn.

And if co bets you can call closing the action to try and hit one of your outs.

[Sysvr4 0]

Textbook check here. You may want to reread the overcard section in SSHE.Jeff

[Silly_11 0]

Textbook check here. You may want to reread the overcard section in SSHE.Jeff

Is this really a leak to raise here? The BB could have any two hands and EP1 calls. So a raise is terrible? You have two overcards, 3 queens for the nut straight, and a backdoor flush draw to the K high. What about the raise to see where you're at?

[postflopfbg 0]

Devil's advocate...Is it really that easy?I think you can reliably give yourself 2.5 outs for the overcard draw. Kings are almost certainly dirty. Ac may be dirty, but you'll have the nut flush redraw. 3.5 outs for the nut gutshot draw. I'll discount the backdoor flush draw since it's not a nut draw.Around 6 outs to hit a winner. Am I overestimating? So you're getting 9-1 as the action comes to you and are a little worse than 7-1 to make your hand.So is this missed overcards/multiway pot/coordinated board -- check/call? Or does the idea that you should be more aggressive with your marginal hand/draws in larger pots apply here?EDIT: In other words, does the second concept apply only when bet into and deciding to check/call with your marginal hands? Or does it apply when deciding to bet out when you know you're planning to call a bet back to you if you check?

[Sysvr4 0]

You have two overcards, 3 queens for the nut straight, and a backdoor flush draw to the K high.

Look at the board again and assign a value (in outs) to the following:1) Your overcards (hint, one of them is basically worthless and the other isn't much better)2) Your gutshot (even this is diminished slightly by the two clubs)3) Your bd flush draw.I'm not saying do not continue in the hand, but betting is just begging to be raised, and it's very unlikely that flop didn't hit someone.The only valid reason I see to bet this is to try to buy a free turn. But I'd say about 5% of the flops I see like this don't have a raise after the PFR bets.Jeff

[Silly_11 0]

Look at the board again and assign a value (in outs) to the following:1) Your overcards (hint, one of them is basically worthless and the other isn't much better)2) Your gutshot (even this is diminished slightly by the two clubs)3) Your bd flush draw.I'm not saying do not continue in the hand, but betting is just begging to be raised, and it's very unlikely that flop didn't hit someone.The only valid reason I see to bet this is to try to buy a free turn. But I'd say about 5% of the flops I see like this don't have a raise after the PFR bets.Jeff

Alright. so basically I'm overplaying my overcards and gutshot/bd flush draw. I think postflopfbg summed up the outs pretty well. Although, if you did bet and get raise it's a simple fold but you may pick the pot up right here (not likely though). What about if the board is changed to be a little less coordinated....say the 2c instead of the 9c. Then you're overcards have more value correct? Sillyps. I'm gonna leave work early to go read the overcards section of SSHE before I play tonight. Actually I just wanna leave work early.

[postflopfbg 0]

Alright. so basically I'm overplaying my overcards and gutshot/bd flush draw. I think postflopfbg summed up the outs pretty well. Although, if you did bet and get raise it's a simple fold but you may pick the pot up right here (not likely though). What about if the board is changed to be a little less coordinated....say the 2c instead of the 9c. Then you're overcards have more value correct? Sillyps. I'm gonna leave work early to go read the overcards section of SSHE before I play tonight. Actually I just wanna leave work early.

Aaack. I'm not folding if it's one bet back to me. Why bet at all then?If it gets raised, then reraised, I'll probably go away, but certainly not for one bet.

[Silly_11 0]

Aaack. I'm not folding if it's one bet back to me. Why bet at all then?If it gets raised, then reraised, I'll probably go away, but certainly not for one bet.

I'm definetly calling here (while closing the action) but I was thinking if you're calling then why aren't you raising... Cause then maybe you get to see a free river card. That's basically where I was coming from. I'm trying to sort out my leaks though....

[coppedit 0]

If two people have checked before you, you might as well check and try to get a free card. You have nothing at the current time, so you might as well check and try to see the turn. If CO bets, and the two players in front of you call, you could consider calling in hopes of landing your Q. if the other two players fold, then you might as well fold too, bc the pot cannot be big enough to make it a worth it.if unimproved on the turn, u might as well give up on the hand. you basically are drawing to a Q(non-club). to put any money into this pot is a waste.

[rog 0]

So is this missed overcards/multiway pot/coordinated board -- check/call? Or does the idea that you should be more aggressive with your marginal hand/draws in larger pots apply here?EDIT: In other words, does the second concept apply only when bet into and deciding to check/call with your marginal hands? Or does it apply when deciding to bet out when you know you're planning to call a bet back to you if you check?

Assuming your 6 outs are correct, you'd still have to ask yourself what a raise accomplishes here. I dont think you have an equity edge, so a bet has to clean up your outs and improve your chances of winning. What hands are folding that make your K outs better? None. Any Q is staying in, as is any pair with K kicker. Your aces are about as good as they're ever going to be. Flsuh draws are calling. Basically any hand that beats AK if you hit a pair out is calling your bet anyway. Some of the time you get raised. A bet here has to be -EV.