CobaltBlue 662 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Bodog 1/2 NLHE (8-handed)Cobalt $174BB $200Cobalt is CO w/ 3 3 . BB seems reasonable, but I haven't been at the table long.Pre-flop:UTG calls, BB checksFlop ($16): K 3 J (8 players)SB checks, BB bets $8Turn ($184): K (2 players)BB bets $92 Link to post Share on other sites
tufat23 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 you can realistically only be crediting him for KJ, and sometimes JJ right?could be KQ if he feels he's ahead. Why didn't you just push on the flop?I think its best, if ure that worried to just take it down there and be happy with a $100 pot. He's already shown serious interest and if he has you beat there, all you can say is lolipops. Link to post Share on other sites
Spence 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'm going broke here if he has me beat.You got the dream flop for your hand. You're on bodog. He could have K2.I'm not good enough to put somebody who checked in the BB on KJ or JJ. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 I did consider pushing, but I figured he'd be very likely to push the turn, and the board's not too dangerous. He's shown serious strength on this flop, and we're pretty sure he's reasonable...not some donk overplaying TPGK. He bet out into the whole field (which shows strength) and came back over the top of a re-raise. On the turn, he doesn't go all-in...he bets exactly what we've got left in our stack.Based on the lack of raise pre-flop, he's very unlikely to have KK. AK/JJ are possibilities, but I'm not sure they're particularly likely. That narrows it down to KJ/K3/J3. Holding two of the 3s makes K3/J3 more unlikely. Also, does he push the turn with J3? Basically, his most likely holdings have to be KJ/JJ/K3. All three of those hands beat the snot out of us on the turn.On the flop, I read him for KJ, but I still wasn't good enough to lay down the house, so I called.I just wanted to see if anyone is capable of making this lay down. There really is no good chance that we're ahead on this turn. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I feel that I would double up here more often than go broke.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
ICrushHomeGames 0 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Push this flop for sure. Behind only JJ. You should expect KK and JJ to raise pre-flop.Remember, it's always nice to have outs. Although you're getting 2:1, this is especially tough because if you're behind on the turn, you're essentially dead. Only hand he pushes with that you can beat is a naked K. Lay this down.Curious about results. He has KJ, no? Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I don't see how you can fold getting 3:1 here even if you did hit just about the worst possible turn. If you had another $200 behind to worry about on the river, it might be a different story. I'll agree that I can't think of any reasonable hand we're ahead of here though. I suppose technically, it probably should be a fold since KJ is the only hand I can imagine a reasonable player playing in this manner. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Yeah...he had KJ. A sad part of my rationalization for calling was that I should've pushed the flop and lost all my money anyway. :? Link to post Share on other sites
LPY2005 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't think KK or JJ are reasonable holdings. What reasonable player wants to see a flop with that many players with a high pocket pair? KJ is the only holding I would be afraid of and would have called anyway. I'd hate to lay this down against someone overplaying AK or a straight draw. I think you played it fine, but I would had all my money in on the flop and then put this in the bad beat section when he hit his K.In online poker there is no way I can get away from this hand with the pot odds offered. Maybe if it was trips against four to the flush or the straight, but not here. Link to post Share on other sites
tufat23 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 i'd have pushed that flop. I really don't think its unreasonable for JJ. Its not a premium pair, and whilst i would probably look to raise for value, im not driving peopel out in case someone has a monster or a bad flop comes. With that many limpers, and JJ in bb, if the flop came rags you have consider that someone hit a set , and play defensively with it. Trying to thin the field from bb here is not a very good play IMO, as you have strong set value and are looking to build a pot rather than knock people out.What are you meant to do if someone comes over the top preflop? answer= laydown.The most resonable holding here is KJ, in which case a push on the flop and he'd be along for the ride and you'd be posting this in the bad beat section. (there's no read which is never good; although its a low chance, someone on tilt will probably play this hand the same with K,10 or K,9) Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The only reason you have to smooth call the flop is to guarantee that he doesnt have the option of folding for the rest of his stack if you go over the top if he has something that he can conceivably fold.If you think the only hands in his range are two pair combo's, then you might as well push on the flop since he's already tied himself to the pot with something that strong.The only reason i can see to smooth call the flop is to ensure that hands like TPGK arent folding to your push. So clearly you do think that there's some remote possibility that he had top pair on the flop. And if that is the case, he'd certainly play the turn the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
cu in 4years Dan 1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 i think that for wat around 110 dollars more he would call to win a $180 pot, hes getting good odds on his money, i would have pushed on the flop after the 58 bucks was raised. also i think its more than likely he would have raised with JJ KK and possibley KJ, although raising that pot with KJ on the BB. i truly think your good here so i'd push on the flop Link to post Share on other sites
LPY2005 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I really don't think its unreasonable for JJ. Its not a premium pair, and whilst i would probably look to raise for value, im not driving peopel out in case someone has a monster or a bad flop comes. With that many limpers, and JJ in bb, if the flop came rags you have consider that someone hit a set , and play defensively with it. Trying to thin the field from bb here is not a very good play IMO, as you have strong set value and are looking to build a pot rather than knock people out.What are you meant to do if someone comes over the top preflop? answer= laydown.I disagree. The reason you play JJ more agressively preflop is that unless you hit your set you have to muck it with this many people. JJ is a good holding in an unraised pot and should be played accordingly. With a feild this large you'd have to fold if any overcard flopped because you let the guy playing A-rag, Kx, or Qx in for cheap. If undercards come on the flop then one of your opponents may have hit their set, again because you let them in cheaply with your JJ. JJ does not play well against a huge feild. You have to hit your set to be profitable, and even then you could be beat by flushes and straights if you don't fill. By raising preflop you either win it right there, thin the feild, or behaps laydown to a re-raise, but even then you may have saved some money by having a clue where you are at. Even if re-raised I might only lay this down to someone in early position who may be slow playing a monster. I guess since you would just call with JJ, then JJ must be considered a possible holding, although I'd argue that it is a high probability. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 I disagree. The reason you play JJ more agressively preflop is that unless you hit your set you have to muck it with this many people. JJ is a good holding in an unraised pot and should be played accordingly. With a feild this large you'd have to fold if any overcard flopped because you let the guy playing A-rag, Kx, or Qx in for cheap. If undercards come on the flop then one of your opponents may have hit their set, again because you let them in cheaply with your JJ. JJ does not play well against a huge feild. You have to hit your set to be profitable, and even then you could be beat by flushes and straights if you don't fill. By raising preflop you either win it right there, thin the feild, or behaps laydown to a re-raise, but even then you may have saved some money by having a clue where you are at. Even if re-raised I might only lay this down to someone in early position who may be slow playing a monster. I guess since you would just call with JJ, then JJ must be considered a possible holding, although I'd argue that it is a high probability.I'm usually raising JJ from the blinds, but in a loose game, I think it's actually okay to mix things up by taking a flop and playing for set/overpair value. The problem with raising regardless of table conditions is that if you can't thin the field pre-flop, you're going to be playing a tough hand from OOP the rest of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
LPY2005 0 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm usually raising JJ from the blinds, but in a loose game, I think it's actually okay to mix things up by taking a flop and playing for set/overpair value. The problem with raising regardless of table conditions is that if you can't thin the field pre-flop, you're going to be playing a tough hand from OOP the rest of the time.If the table is so loose that you don't feel you can thin the feild with a good sized raise then I would agree. Bad position is another reason to try to thin the feild or possibly take it down right there. I'd rather play this agressively preflop that try to figure out where I am if I don't hit my hand. Okay, since more than just a couple people would just check the JJ preflop, I guess that may be a hand to worry about as well. I would still only be worried about KJ in this situation. Anyone that flops a set and folds to the possibility of an over set is playing weak poker IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
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