gilbertology 0 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I just watched the WPT Seaons 3 Borgata tournament with Daniel, Arieh, David Williams, and Phil Ivey at the final table. When they got to heads up, is it just me or was Daniel really getting it handed to him, mostly because of a bad run of cards, until he flopped the trip 2s to David's QQ, with Negreanu down 5mil to 1mil it doubled him up to 2.2mil to David's 3.8 mil. After that DW kind of self destructed, especially with the all-in bet with Q7 where Daniel had basically pot commited himself with KK. That gave DN the chip lead and he never looked back. I give mad props to Daniel for weathering his cold streak at the beginning of heads up, and coming back strong to win a few key pots that turned the tide. One of the differences that separates the elite, such as DN, from that second tier of good players, such as DW and Phil Hel., is the ability to keep their composure after a few bad beats, which is not what David did after losing to that A2. Link to post Share on other sites
gilbertology 0 Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 I just finished watching the whole tournament and I was wrong about Daniel cruising, it was even when he won with the AA vs K6.Man, did you see how excited DN was after he won. This must have been his first tournament victory in a long time, or a victory after a few final tables, and probably continued the great year he had in 2004. What a victory! Hopefully, Tunica will be a springboard to a great year in 2006 like the Borgata was for 2004. Link to post Share on other sites
booyaga 0 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I just finished watching the whole tournament and I was wrong about Daniel cruising, it was even when he won with the AA vs K6.Man, did you see how excited DN was after he won. This must have been his first tournament victory in a long time, or a victory after a few final tables, and probably continued the great year he had in 2004. What a victory! Hopefully, Tunica will be a springboard to a great year in 2006 like the Borgata was for 2004.I think that was the last tournament of the year and because of his victory, he won the card player of the year award. Link to post Share on other sites
gilbertology 0 Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 No, the Bellagio Five Diamond Classic was the last tournament of the year in 2004, where he won the CardPlayer points title. This was his first victory of the year, and I tihnk he had one or two more victories in 2004 after that. Link to post Share on other sites
booyaga 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 ok...then i'm wrong :shock: Link to post Share on other sites
the_charleroi_ki 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him. Link to post Share on other sites
Manihack 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him. Link to post Share on other sites
the_charleroi_ki 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 well he won the heads up poker championship and was 3rd in the TOC and you won in tunica you cant honestly say that you had a better 2005 then him Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game known to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.just trying to keep the grammar police at bay. Link to post Share on other sites
the_charleroi_ki 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 i think phil hellmuth is a good poker playeri am now public enemy number 1 Link to post Share on other sites
76clubs 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.lol this is true, but you know many people were saying things like this about you last year....I WAS NOT ONE OF THEM! lol i always stuck by you and all, but i know people thought you just had a "lucky year"I think that it is probably impossible to win as muchas you did in 2204 on luck alone anyway..... Link to post Share on other sites
Bill_Brasky 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.We thought you died. Funny post though. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.lol this is true, but you know many people were saying things like this about you last year....I WAS NOT ONE OF THEM! lol i always stuck by you and all, but i know people thought you just had a "lucky year"I think that it is probably impossible to win as muchas you did in 2204 on luck alone anyway.....He did have a lucky year. Doesn't mean he's not one of the top 10 or even top 5 players of all time. It doesn't mean he won't continue to crush cash games and win tournaments. He just won't have another Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.lol this is true, but you know many people were saying things like this about you last year....I WAS NOT ONE OF THEM! lol i always stuck by you and all, but i know people thought you just had a "lucky year"I think that it is probably impossible to win as muchas you did in 2204 on luck alone anyway.....He did have a lucky year. Doesn't mean he's not one of the top 10 or even top 5 players of all time. It doesn't mean he won't continue to crush cash games and win tournaments. He just won't have anothernobody could go on the run that he did without some luck. Link to post Share on other sites
lister14 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.i think hes a pretty good nlhe tourn player, when he plays. wasnt he one of the originators of the small ball style of play? Link to post Share on other sites
gilbertology 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 phil hellmuth is a second tier player???sorry but phil hellmuth is a much better player then daniel right now at least This is just flat out nuts. There isn't a poker game none to man that he would have a chance in. I would totally crush him in any and all forms of poker. Seriously, what makes you think Phil is playing well? What does he win? When does he even play? I like Phil a lot and think he is hilarious, but the dude couldn't handle the head spinning I'd give him.Hahaha this is why Daniel is the man. He tells it like it is, not how people want it to be. Talking a little smack about Hellmuth, which is all in good natured fun, but very true as well. The only game Phil could 'maybe' beat Daniel in over the longrun is Chinese Poker.I'm sure he's written about this before, but that Borgata tournament was probably the culmination of all the hard work he put into 2004. Maybe his biggest cash up to that point? I'm sure someone can look that up. And he was dressed in all black too. If I ever made a televised WPT final table I would wear all black with an FCP cap. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I just watched the WPT Seaons 3 Borgata tournament with Daniel, Arieh, David Williams, and Phil Ivey at the final table. When they got to heads up, is it just me or was Daniel really getting it handed to him, mostly because of a bad run of cards, until he flopped the trip 2s to David's QQ, with Negreanu down 5mil to 1mil it doubled him up to 2.2mil to David's 3.8 mil. After that DW kind of self destructed, especially with the all-in bet with Q7 where Daniel had basically pot commited himself with KK. That gave DN the chip lead and he never looked back. I give mad props to Daniel for weathering his cold streak at the beginning of heads up, and coming back strong to win a few key pots that turned the tide. One of the differences that separates the elite, such as DN, from that second tier of good players, such as DW and Phil Hel., is the ability to keep their composure after a few bad beats, which is not what David did after losing to that A2.This is the most horrendously atrocious statement ever. Phil Hellmuth is in the upper tier of elite NL tourney players...bottom line. Sure, Hellmuth b*tches a lot, but it doesn't affect his play as much as people think. Hellmuth is one of the very best NL tourney players in the world, IF not the very best. When will people learn...... Link to post Share on other sites
gilbertology 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 I just watched the WPT Seaons 3 Borgata tournament with Daniel, Arieh, David Williams, and Phil Ivey at the final table. When they got to heads up, is it just me or was Daniel really getting it handed to him, mostly because of a bad run of cards, until he flopped the trip 2s to David's QQ, with Negreanu down 5mil to 1mil it doubled him up to 2.2mil to David's 3.8 mil. After that DW kind of self destructed, especially with the all-in bet with Q7 where Daniel had basically pot commited himself with KK. That gave DN the chip lead and he never looked back. I give mad props to Daniel for weathering his cold streak at the beginning of heads up, and coming back strong to win a few key pots that turned the tide. One of the differences that separates the elite, such as DN, from that second tier of good players, such as DW and Phil Hel., is the ability to keep their composure after a few bad beats, which is not what David did after losing to that A2.This is the most horrendously atrocious statement ever. Phil Hellmuth is in the upper tier of elite NL tourney players...bottom line. Sure, Hellmuth b*tches a lot, but it doesn't affect his play as much as people think. Hellmuth is one of the very best NL tourney players in the world, IF not the very best. When will people learn......Excuse me sir, but who do you think would know more about this matter. You, who only sees a few select hands of a tournament that Phil plays on TV, or....a consumate proffesional, Daniel Negreanu, who has played tournaments on the circuit with Hellmuth for the past eight years.I think I'll take Daniel's word on how "good" Phil is. Just because "Play Poker Like the Pros" was the first book you read, doesn't mean Hellmuth is a god. He is a decent NL tournament player and that's pretty much it. How many of his WSOP bracelets have come in a non-Hold'Em event? He simply is not a complete poker player because he only specializes in one game, and is TERRIBLE at cash games. You can't say that about the real pros like Daniel, Greenstein, Brunson, Harmon, Reese, Ivey, etc. TV time does not always equal good player. Enough about Hellmuth, lets talk about the Borgata tournament for those who've seen it. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I just watched the WPT Seaons 3 Borgata tournament with Daniel, Arieh, David Williams, and Phil Ivey at the final table. When they got to heads up, is it just me or was Daniel really getting it handed to him, mostly because of a bad run of cards, until he flopped the trip 2s to David's QQ, with Negreanu down 5mil to 1mil it doubled him up to 2.2mil to David's 3.8 mil. After that DW kind of self destructed, especially with the all-in bet with Q7 where Daniel had basically pot commited himself with KK. That gave DN the chip lead and he never looked back. I give mad props to Daniel for weathering his cold streak at the beginning of heads up, and coming back strong to win a few key pots that turned the tide. One of the differences that separates the elite, such as DN, from that second tier of good players, such as DW and Phil Hel., is the ability to keep their composure after a few bad beats, which is not what David did after losing to that A2.This is the most horrendously atrocious statement ever. Phil Hellmuth is in the upper tier of elite NL tourney players...bottom line. Sure, Hellmuth b*tches a lot, but it doesn't affect his play as much as people think. Hellmuth is one of the very best NL tourney players in the world, IF not the very best. When will people learn......Excuse me sir, but who do you think would know more about this matter. You, who only sees a few select hands of a tournament that Phil plays on TV, or....a consumate proffesional, Daniel Negreanu, who has played tournaments on the circuit with Hellmuth for the past eight years.I think I'll take Daniel's word on how "good" Phil is. Just because "Play Poker Like the Pros" was the first book you read, doesn't mean Hellmuth is a god. He is a decent NL tournament player and that's pretty much it. How many of his WSOP bracelets have come in a non-Hold'Em event? He simply is not a complete poker player because he only specializes in one game, and is TERRIBLE at cash games. You can't say that about the real pros like Daniel, Greenstein, Brunson, Harmon, Reece, Ivey, etc. TV time does not always equal good player. Enough about Hellmuth, lets talk about the Borgata tournament for those who've seen it.Way to read my post. A. Please show me where I said Hellmuth was definitely better than DN. I never said that.B. I was talking about ONLY NO LIMIT TOURNEY HOLDEM. Ouch...maybe you should read my post?? I think this point pretty much nullifies the rest of your post, don't you agree???? I never said a word about Hellmuth being a good "overall" poker players.C. Hellmuth had a better 2005 tournament year according to the HendonMob database..much much more money won. So...I don't know, whatever.Edit: Also..on a side note, I love how everyone loves to admit that he doesn't play as much as a lot of top pros..but then they love to criticize him for not making as many final tables/big cashes as other top pros. Of course he isn't going to make as many final tables as everybody else when he plays way less than everyone else......think about it. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Ah....silence. I see my response has elicited no response from gilbert......who was so quick to jump all over my previous post...Ouch. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 well he won the heads up poker championship and was 3rd in the TOC and you won in tunica you cant honestly say that you had a better 2005 then him Are you kidding? He placed at precisely zero televised open events in 2005, or 2004 for that matter. He didn't even qualify for the TOC! He loses in cash games, and has been a monster loser in tournament poker since 2002. In 2005, I made a few bucks in cash games and also won a couple hundred thousand in tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 well he won the heads up poker championship and was 3rd in the TOC and you won in tunica you cant honestly say that you had a better 2005 then him Are you kidding? He placed at precisely zero televised open events in 2005, or 2004 for that matter. He didn't even qualify for the TOC! He loses in cash games, and has been a monster loser in tournament poker since 2002. In 2005, I made a few bucks in cash games and also won a couple hundred thousand in tournaments.I don't think that's accurate...unless of course you add up all the cash he loses in side games at the sites. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I just watched the WPT Seaons 3 Borgata tournament with Daniel, Arieh, David Williams, and Phil Ivey at the final table. When they got to heads up, is it just me or was Daniel really getting it handed to him, mostly because of a bad run of cards, until he flopped the trip 2s to David's QQ, with Negreanu down 5mil to 1mil it doubled him up to 2.2mil to David's 3.8 mil. After that DW kind of self destructed, especially with the all-in bet with Q7 where Daniel had basically pot commited himself with KK. That gave DN the chip lead and he never looked back. I give mad props to Daniel for weathering his cold streak at the beginning of heads up, and coming back strong to win a few key pots that turned the tide. One of the differences that separates the elite, such as DN, from that second tier of good players, such as DW and Phil Hel., is the ability to keep their composure after a few bad beats, which is not what David did after losing to that A2.This is the most horrendously atrocious statement ever. Phil Hellmuth is in the upper tier of elite NL tourney players...bottom line. Sure, Hellmuth b*tches a lot, but it doesn't affect his play as much as people think. Hellmuth is one of the very best NL tourney players in the world, IF not the very best. When will people learn...... You are dead wrong. Phil was a pretty good player in the 80's and 90's when he cared, but there is simply no chance that he is among the top 20 NLH tournament players today. Off the top of my head, here are a few guys that would crush him:1. Me2. Phil Ivey3. John Juanda4. The Grinder5. Allen Cunningham6. Michael Grac7. David Benyamine8. Doyle Brunson9. Todd Brunson10.Gus Hansen11. Erick Lindgren12.Joe Cassidy13. Erik Sagstrom14. Johnny Chan15. John D'Agostino16. Carlos Mortensen17. Prahlad Friedman18. Farzad Bonyadi19. Dan Harrington20. Ted Forrest These are totally off the top of my head, yet each and every one of them is a bigger threat in the WPT and WSOP Circuit events than Phil. Link to post Share on other sites
gilbertology 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Lol, nevermind, Daniel just made my case for me. I could name another 20 but I'm playing a tournament right now. Sorry buddy. Link to post Share on other sites
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