get out of the way?

[jmar 0]

Here's a trecherous hand I would like some comments on, and I know I just posted about mini-raising but it had been winning blinds at this table and I suck at poker, so ... on with it:nickel recently took a bad one and has made some questionable calls. Jake has been desperate and won some coin-flips to get just a tad bit of room. I have a pretty tight image.100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:18:35 ET - 2006/02/14Seat 1: iBungyX (3,455)Seat 2: Jake1013 (2,065)Seat 4: J_mar (3,300)Seat 5: Muck_it_32 (1,460)Seat 7: nickelanddime99 (3,220)iBungyX posts the small blind of 100Jake1013 posts the big blind of 200The button is in seat #7*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to J_mar [Th 9h]J_mar raises to 400Muck_it_32 foldsnickelanddime99 calls 400iBungyX foldsJake1013 calls 200*** FLOP *** [9c 4h 3d]Jake1013 bets 1,665, and is all in

[gobears 0]

Could be a stop n go since that flop is non-scary. I would hate calling that with TP Weak kicker though with someone to act behind me.Is this a sit n go where the top three seats pay? Payout structure and where I stood in relation to the payout would determine my move.

[copernicus 0]

Even though minraises have been picking up blinds, I dont think a minraise UTG is likely to knock out much, so you are really relying on the implied odds from a well hidden monster. With these stacks I dont think youve got enough implied odds for that. I would fold preflop.However, now that youve flopped top pair, before folding you have to consider BBs play. He was getting 5.5:1 odds to call, which doesnt narrow things down any. With that flop you are a 8:2 favorite over a random hand, but lets assume to just call preflop and push post flop that he either improved his hand or thought that the dry flop decreased the odds of the others catching up. Since he probably would have raised with AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, Id put him on other pairs, Aces down to 7, the other broadways and suited connectors down to 76. That range doesnt really change things very much only reducing you to a 3:1 favorite. So, even if there is somewhat more than a 40% chance that he was slowplaying a monster you have a call here.

[copernicus 0]

Could be a stop n go since that flop is non-scary. I would hate calling that with TP Weak kicker though with someone to act behind me.Is this a sit n go where the top three seats pay? Payout structure and where I stood in relation to the payout would determine my move.

If it were a stop and go the flop wouldnt matter!

[jmar 0]

yeah, i know better than that preflop.I ended up pushing all in to get the 3rd player to fold a hand that might have me beat. didn't work at all. they both called, showing JJ and 1010. JJ held up.

[copernicus 0]

yeah, i know better than that preflop.I ended up pushing all in to get the 3rd player to fold a hand that might have me beat. didn't work at all. they both called, showing JJ and 1010. JJ held up.

JJ and TT both just called preflop? pretty amazing, but it worked, at least for the JJ lol.

[therrinn 0]

yeah, i know better than that preflop.I ended up pushing all in to get the 3rd player to fold a hand that might have me beat.  didn't work at all.  they both called, showing JJ and 1010.  JJ held up.

JJ and TT both just called preflop? pretty amazing, but it worked, at least for the JJ lol.

Not really that surprising, given that he had a tight image and was raising from utg.

[copernicus 0]

yeah, i know better than that preflop.I ended up pushing all in to get the 3rd player to fold a hand that might have me beat. didn't work at all. they both called, showing JJ and 1010. JJ held up.

JJ and TT both just called preflop? pretty amazing, but it worked, at least for the JJ lol.

Not really that surprising, given that he had a tight image and was raising from utg.

jj's are huge 5 handed. An UTG raise 5 handed doesnt have nearly the weight it does at a full table...its equivalent to a late middle position at a full table, which means something on the order of 77+,AT+,KQ, QJ even if things are tight. If the JJ is the first hand he needs to raise to isolate against the original raiser, and he's a 60:40 favorite against that range. If the TT is the first hand then I can see him calling for fear of the blinds plus a slimmer advantage against that range...53:47. That might induce the JJ to smooth call also, though OOP with a min raise and a call Id still be tempted to raise.

[jmar 0]

this is the crap i always end up losing on. If someone else had posted this I would have said the pre-flop mini was a mistake. I know this. But there I am in the situation and think, "I'll just do it this once ... it'll be fine ... I'll pick up the blinds." and i'm out of the tournament. Learning this stuff and talking about it is one thing but it really takes disipline to put it into practice enough to win consistantly.my "roll" has been stagnant for two months now and I'd really like to get back to winning.

[Big_Slick_86 0]

Learning this stuff and talking about it is one thing but it really takes disipline to put it into practice enough to win consistantly.

I hear you on this one. Maybe you could try this.I have been playing for about two years firstly in a home game and latterly online, not for big stakes, just enough to keep it interesting. Before I put money into an online site I wanted to try out various sites to see which one I liked best. I really liked party poker's set up and put in a lot of hours on the play money tables, firstly to get used to it, and later to practise, hopefully improve and try out new techniques and ideas. I played as though there was money on the line, and found that when money was on the line in my home game I had virtually eliminated those "I know it's K-2 but I could hit a K" situations, to the point where I have been playing too tight, it's taken a small adjustment and a lot less time to take a small step back the other way, and now I can concentrate on improving other aspects of my game.It may not be what you're looking for but it helped me, and I wish you all the best in your future poker exploits.PS I put my money into Bluesquare poker in the end.