kouta43 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 couldnt be bothered reading what everyone else said, but:1) Preflop is horrible. Cap without thinking twice. Wait worse than horrible. You get the picture.2) Flop play is fine, need to try and think the field here, check raise is the way to go3) Turn play is ABC4) You shouldnt be playing limit holdem if you are seriously considering folding. Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 couldnt be bothered reading what everyone else said, but:1) Preflop is horrible. Cap without thinking twice. Wait worse than horrible. You get the picture.2) Flop play is fine, need to try and think the field here, check raise is the way to go3) Turn play is ABC4) You shouldnt be playing limit holdem if you are seriously considering folding.Read this. Then read it again. Stop making excuses for -EV plays. From what I've read, 40-80 at the Commerce plays like any other SSHE-type of table. There's no need to disguise your hand or get fancy. Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Regarding preflop, if I were playing the hand, I wouldn't feel that capping would give away my hand, since I would also cap ATs in that same spot. You should only call if you feel that playing deceptively will allow you to more than make up for the immediately miss by gaining value later in the hand, which I doubt you will.On to the river, the question is this. Suppose you were offered the following prop: After you decide to fold, somebody (who has no more information than you do) offers to give you $80 if your hand was indeed no good. But, if it turns out that your hand would have been good, you have to give him $2080. Would you take this bet? If not, then you should call the river.If the bettor NEVER gets out of line in his position, then folding is fine, as he would be out of line to bet anything that you beat here. But, if villain only RARELY gets out of line, then you should call here. And you have to know an opponent pretty well to be able to distinguish never from rarely. Either way, if you fold this, then the entire table will assume you likely folded AJ (given the way you played the hand), and once they see this, you should not make another such big-pot fold against these players for a long time. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Sometimes you are capping the flop drawing to 2 outs. Cap it preflop when you know you have the best hand and get value out of it. You could be losing a good amount of $ by letting 6 people see the flop and putting 4 bets in with just a pair.As to the river bet, it's pretty obvious that you have aces or jacks at this point. If you fold to this bet getting such good odds, then UTG knows that if he bets he'll make money if the 2 people dont behind him have the flush and/or MAYBE the 10 because he knows you are folding only 1/27 times.When you clearly define your hand, sometimes you are gonna have to pay off river bets in big pots because people will start betting into you on a scary board. This may or may not be the case.I think this hand is extremely close, closer than most people probably think. I would probably call it closing the action. Link to post Share on other sites
kdogg 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 If you're 96% sure that you're beat, then fold. I would've called, but I only play online for lower stakes than 40/80. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 ) The river is the 9 Suit: Spade . BB checks and I check as well. Some have told me to lead out, but I think that is stupid because there is simply no value in that (I hope people understand why)Go back to 9/18.Do not pass go.good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 ) The river is the 9 Suit: Spade . BB checks and I check as well. Some have told me to lead out, but I think that is stupid because there is simply no value in that (I hope people understand why)Go back to 9/18.Do not pass go.good luck.Do not collect $200. Link to post Share on other sites
spikymarv99 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I did call. But what do you guys think about what the higher limit players said regarding making that call?Regarding pre-flop.... please read above. It accomplished my goal of maximizing value. If I felt capping would thin the field, I would have done it, but since I didn't believe it would, hiding my hand was better IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
spikymarv99 0 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Regarding preflop, if I were playing the hand, I wouldn't feel that capping would give away my hand, since I would also cap ATs in that same spot. Â You should only call if you feel that playing deceptively will allow you to more than make up for the immediately miss by gaining value later in the hand, which I doubt you will.I did get more value on the flop. Please don't cap with A-10s, fold it.On to the river, the question is this. Â Suppose you were offered the following prop: After you decide to fold, somebody (who has no more information than you do) offers to give you $80 if your hand was indeed no good. Â But, if it turns out that your hand would have been good, you have to give him $2080. Â Would you take this bet? Â If not, then you should call the river.I wouldn't have taken the bet.If the bettor NEVER gets out of line in his position, then folding is fine, as he would be out of line to bet anything that you beat here. Â But, if villain only RARELY gets out of line, then you should call here. Â And you have to know an opponent pretty well to be able to distinguish never from rarely. Â Either way, if you fold this, then the entire table will assume you likely folded AJ (given the way you played the hand), and once they see this, you should not make another such big-pot fold against these players for a long time.I don't think anyone would get out of line here with 2 people behind him. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I did call. But what do you guys think about what the higher limit players said regarding making that call?Regarding pre-flop.... please read above. It accomplished my goal of maximizing value. If I felt capping would thin the field, I would have done it, but since I didn't believe it would, hiding my hand was better IMO.For the love of god! Why are you trying to thin the field!??!?!?Learn to hide your hand by capping other hands in this situation. Also, if the players you are playing with "know" that you have AA just because you capped, that means that either you suck, because you are predictable, or they suck because they have narrowed your hand range to ONE hand preflop. Period. Stop doing this.For example, you SHOULD be capping with a ton of hands in this situation. The pot is like 6 handed, you have equity to cap hands like KQs if you should get there with them.This whole post is really just getting annoying. I know I don't play 40-80 yet, but I know the game well enough to know that something is wrong here.- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zach6668 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 D0uble post. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I did call. But what do you guys think about what the higher limit players said regarding making that call?I think they think that you think they know more because they have more money to play with than I do, or Zach, or Abbaddaabbdoo, (I think Smash is a millionaire, but that could be legend), or othersIf this hand is typical of the action/looseness then SSHE applies pretty well. as Abbaddabba said, if "good'' players fold here, 1/3 times, he makes a smart bluff leading out.and no, I did not learn anything from this, except you were incorrectly persudaded to make lousy laydowns in the future.saving bets is the key.. lol.... Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The guy bet into 2 people plus the aggressor. fold if one of the other 2 call, if they dont, then you HAVE to make the crying call. sorry, but you have to. cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Rwood? I haven't seen you in a year. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The guy bet into 2 people plus the aggressor. fold if one of the other 2 call, if they dont, then you HAVE to make the crying call. sorry, but you have to. cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Garn 0 Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 yeah no uestion you gotta call. calling $80 to win a possible $2000+ pot makes it automatic in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Fold here and you deserve a "Very nice laydown sir" ala Bobby Bellande. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 This thread has gotten away from the reason why I made it. I basically made a crying call to the river bet and he happily turned over A-10 of spades for the flush and the straight. I called basically because of the price of the pot even though I knew there was no way I could win. I spoke with two sucessful 300-600 and higher players and they both called me a donkey for making the call. There reasoning was based on what I stated earlier. You can't bet witout the flush because there are two people yet to act and the aggressor will prob have to call you b/c of the size of the pot. They both independently stated that making that call is complete donkey censored. The more I think about it, the more they are correct. I knew there is no way he can be bluffing yet I called?????????????? They stated that it is bets saved like that will make you a long time winning player along with those value bets you make with marginal hands. Does anyone agree with this? Looking at the math again.... He needs to be betting K-K or lower 1-27 times for this to be a profitable call. There is no way he is doing this 1-27 times so my call was horrible. There probably needs to be 99 big bets in the pot in order to make this call correct. Does anyone else see this?Wish I had the BR for that game, i'd be betting a missed draw in Villain's spot all day long knowing those idiots would fold AA getting 27:1. Link to post Share on other sites
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