flush draw and inside str8 draw w/ position.

[Scott3705 0]

New again to limit holdem. Wonder what's standard here. 2/4Folded to MP3 who raisesI have k q I callBB callsFlop a 10 6 MP3 bets, what's my line in limit here? Do i call to keep the BB in (although i did not think he would fold to two bets. He calls down with random trash and would called two bets here with 66.) Do I raise to get cheap card if I don't hit the turn? (this is what i did.) I probably get 3 bet by ak tho here.

[mkeller3086 0]

i'm 3 betting this pf, fwiwraise the flop, you have 12 outs to the nuts (admittedly not all clean)your k and q outs may still be good, mp3 is raising pf with many hands that do not contain an ace- this gives you enough equity to raise the flopthe combination of maybe getting a free card on the turn and the number of outs you have on the flop, giving you an equity edge, make this a clear raise to meif you know bb is pretty willing to call two bets here with some pretty weak holdings this makes raising even clearer

[econ_tim 0]

here you're likely behind, but have 12 outs to the nutsthere's also a chance that MP3 is betting without an ace, maybe with Tx or a pocket pair, in which case you could have up to 18 outs and would be a HU favorite vs. MP3i would raiseif BB calls, greatif BB folds and MP3 calls, you should bet the turn again if checked toif BB folds and MP3 3-bets, i would cap the flop and take a free card on the turn if possibleedited for truth

[Scott3705 0]

i'm 3 betting this pf, fwiwraise the flop, you have 12 outs to the nuts (admittedly not all clean)your k and q outs may still be good, mp3 is raising pf with many hands that do not contain an ace- this gives you enough equity to raise the flopthe combination of maybe getting a free card on the turn and the number of outs you have on the flop, giving you an equity edge, make this a clear raise to meif you know bb is pretty willing to call two bets here with some pretty weak holdings this makes raising even clearer

Kq suited is strong enough to 3 bet preflop?What about my 12 outs are not clean? I raised. got 2 calls and the turn blanked. It got checked to me. No what? bet again or take the free card?

[Guest Zach6668]

Yeah, I'm not 3-betting KQs preflop, unless you know it's a weak steal attempt, or you are isolating a maniac. It's close between calling and folding, but unless the pot is multiway, I'm folding a hand that is likely to be dominated here.As for the turn, you have no showdown value, so I would take the free card.Zach

[mkeller3086 0]

What about my 12 outs are not clean?

say he has AJ, one of your jacks is dead, thats just an example

[Abbaddabba 0]

The fact that one may not be in the deck doesnt make it dirty. Being clean means if you connect with them, they're going to be enough to win the hand. Dirty implies that you can hit your draw and still have a worse hand.If you're going to discredit 1 of your 12 cards on account of the fact that an opponent _may_ have it covered with his kicker, you might as well account for the fact that a queen or king may very well win it for you too. And for all we know, your king high may be leading.

[mkeller3086 0]

The fact that one may not be in the deck doesnt make it dirty. Being clean means if you connect with them, they're going to be enough to win the hand. Dirty implies that you can hit your draw and still have a worse hand.If you're going to discredit 1 of your 12 cards on account of the fact that an opponent _may_ have it covered with his kicker, you might as well account for the fact that a queen or king may very well win it for you too. And for all we know, your king high may be leading.

ok, thanks for the clarificationjust a matter of terminology i suppose

[kouta43 0]

you have got a huge draw even if you are behind, you are almost even money. Pump the flop and see where it takes you.

[hman888 0]

Just a couple of thoughts.First, I agree with Zach, in that I would not three bet pre-flop. I could be dominated by the initial raiser, and I am not looking to play for isolation with KQs.Given that the turn was a blank, I would also choose to take the free card. That is, after all, one of the reason you raised the flop in the first place, right?Moreover, the 2 checks on the turn suggest that neither has an ace, unless one of them is planning a C/R on the turn. If neither has an ace, you are probably up against a middle pair or a lower flush draw. In my view, this means you might get paid off nicely if the flush hits on the river. These factors would make the case for the free card even stronger rather than betting the turn.

[Smasharoo 0]

i'm 3 betting this pf, fwiw Why?good luck.

[AlphaOmega 0]

i'm 3 betting this pf, fwiw Why?good luck.

To isolate himself against a hand that dominates his while preventing the pot from being multi-way, which is the only reason that we should consider playing it in the first place?

[mkeller3086 0]

i figured that if the opponent was opening from mp3 we could make a pretty decent argument for raising therei'm not usually a fan of callingis calling the best play here?

[AlphaOmega 0]

i figured that if the opponent was opening from mp3 we could make a pretty decent argument for raising therei'm not usually a fan of callingis calling the best play here?

A lot of times it's generally read-dependant. If the raiser is really loose, then there can be justification for raising.Otherwise, its probably pretty close between calling and folding.

[Abbaddabba 0]

To isolate himself against a hand that dominates his while preventing the pot from being multi-way, which is the only reason that we should consider playing it in the first place?

Why would you want to prevent it from being multi-way?

[Scott3705 0]

A lot of times it's generally read-dependant. If the raiser is really loose, then there can be justification for raising.Otherwise, its probably pretty close between calling and folding.

Not really strong on my limit reads yet, but as far as I thought of this player, it's any pair over 77. A8+, k9+, jq.

[mkeller3086 0]

A lot of times it's generally read-dependant. If the raiser is really loose, then there can be justification for raising.Otherwise, its probably pretty close between calling and folding.

Not really strong on my limit reads yet, but as far as I thought of this player, it's any pair over 77. A8+, k9+, jq.

if this is your range then i really don't think 3 betting is that badyou are investing one extra bet preflop to make the rest of the hand easier to play and at the same time your positional advantage and aggression preflop will help you pick up more pots on the flop and turn when you both missif you are behind preflop, i don't think its by that much and i think 3 betting preflop will help you save bets later on when you give your opponent an opportunity to better define his handjust my opinion, wondering what others think

[mkeller3086 0]

To isolate himself against a hand that dominates his while preventing the pot from being multi-way, which is the only reason that we should consider playing it in the first place?

Why would you want to prevent it from being multi-way?

because he's being sarcastic

[AlphaOmega 0]

A lot of times it's generally read-dependant. If the raiser is really loose, then there can be justification for raising.Otherwise, its probably pretty close between calling and folding.

Not really strong on my limit reads yet, but as far as I thought of this player, it's any pair over 77. A8+, k9+, jq.

if this is your range then i really don't think 3 betting is that badyou are investing one extra bet preflop to make the rest of the hand easier to play and at the same time your positional advantage and aggression preflop will help you pick up more pots on the flop and turn when you both missif you are behind preflop, i don't think its by that much and i think 3 betting preflop will help you save bets later on when you give your opponent an opportunity to better define his handjust my opinion, wondering what others think

Even with that range, we are slightly behind. That range is probably too wide too. Unless we have a very specific read that we are up against a maniac or a very loose raiser, then 3-betting this hand in this situation is not going to be our best option.

[Scott3705 0]

Even with that range, we are slightly behind. That range is probably too wide too. Unless we have a very specific read that we are up against a maniac or a very loose raiser, then 3-betting this hand in this situation is not going to be our best option.

That's what I felt as well which is why I called. Do you fold this hand here often?

[AlphaOmega 0]

Even with that range, we are slightly behind. That range is probably too wide too. Unless we have a very specific read that we are up against a maniac or a very loose raiser, then 3-betting this hand in this situation is not going to be our best option.

That's what I felt as well which is why I called. Do you fold this hand here often?

I'm probably not the best person to ask. I play lots of hands. That said, yea, I will generally call if the raiser isn't a TAG or a rock.

[Abbaddabba 0]

wow. i read that post all wrong.the sarcasm was just dripping from it too...