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***** Hand History for Game 3481728497 *****$25 PL Omaha - Thursday, February 02, 13:08:51 EDT 2006Table Table 65080 (Real Money)Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 9: Natethegreek ( $30.85 )Seat 1: pumikipo ( $26.95 )Seat 2: Papshmir ( $24.55 )Seat 3: GHOSTMONEY3 ( $26.75 )Seat 4: timmo121 ( $31 )Seat 5: jgyoung ( $14.85 )Seat 6: auntieedna ( $17.30 )Seat 8: D1amondJenny ( $20.65 )Seat 7: MRClark333 ( $20.43 )Seat 10: MiserableGit ( $39.70 )GHOSTMONEY3 posts small blind [$0.10].timmo121 posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Natethegreek [ Qs Th Ks 8h ]jgyoung calls [$0.25].auntieedna folds.MRClark333 raises [$1].D1amondJenny folds.Natethegreek calls [$1].MiserableGit folds.pumikipo calls [$1].Papshmir folds.GHOSTMONEY3 calls [$0.90].timmo121 folds.jgyoung calls [$0.75].** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 9h, As ]GHOSTMONEY3 checks.jgyoung bets [$2].MRClark333 calls [$2].Natethegreek raises [$13].pumikipo folds.GHOSTMONEY3 folds.jgyoung folds.MRClark333 calls [$11].** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]MRClark333 checks.Natethegreek is all-In [$16.85]MRClark333 is all-In [$6.43]** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]

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Here are my thoughts (please note that I am a newbie to this game):I don't think that hand has enough going for it to play in the first place in that position. Perhaps from CO or button, but definately not from EP/MP.Also, when you are on a draw, if you are not on a draw to the nuts, you shouldn't be drawing (of course there will be exceptions, but it is much safer for us newbies to only draw to the nuts while we are learning the game). In this hand, you have only 2 outs that are to the nut-flush (because it is the straight flush), so all other hearts, while giving you a flush, it may still lose the pot for you (to a higher flush or a full house). You do have some straight outs though, which will be to the nut-straight, so that is good. Look at decisions, not results. :wink:

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I don't mind your preflop call, although you could be tighter... This sort of hand can (as you saw) hit the flop pretty hard. It's worth noting however that if you have any serious action on the flop, your hearts are only blocking cards, and your flush probably isn't good. Your straight draw is still massive though (4 sevens, 4 jacks [including for the str. flush], 3 eights, 3 tens, 2 queens and kings, unless i'm misreading) so I think you're still a heavy favourite. Given that the stacks are short, I think you're fine pushing when you're checked to on the turn... I would expect to see a set here at least half the time.p.s. I'm a donk, so grain of salt.

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I don't mind your preflop call, although you could be tighter... This sort of hand can (as you saw) hit the flop pretty hard. It's worth noting however that if you have any serious action on the flop, your hearts are only blocking cards, and your flush probably isn't good. Your straight draw is still massive though (4 sevens, 4 jacks [including for the str. flush], 3 eights, 3 tens, 2 queens and kings, unless i'm misreading) so I think you're still a heavy favourite. Given that the stacks are short, I think you're fine pushing when you're checked to on the turn... I would expect to see a set here at least half the time.p.s. I'm a donk, so grain of salt.
I only like the push in that our opponent is on a short stack (i'm not advocating a push here, just saying that it isn't necessarily bad). If he had a stack that is equal in size to ours, I think you take a free card. Regardless though, once we push we are putting ourselves to the mercy of the cards, as we have nothing but a draw. By taking the free card on the turn, we can possibly save ourselves $6.43 if we don't improve on the river.Look at decisions, not results. :wink:
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Regardless though, once we push we are putting ourselves to the mercy of the cards, as we have nothing but a draw. By taking the free card on the turn, we can possibly save ourselves $6.43 if we don't improve on the river.
I'm not sure I like your reasoning. Even with top set, anytime we push and get action we're at the mercy of the cards; I think the "made hand" vs. "drawing hand" perspective is a bad view. If we are 60-40, it doesn't matter if whether we're made or not, we're still 60%. (not saying that's the number here, just an example.) If we're 60%, then there's no reason we shouldn't put the money in the pot.
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Regardless though, once we push we are putting ourselves to the mercy of the cards, as we have nothing but a draw. By taking the free card on the turn, we can possibly save ourselves $6.43 if we don't improve on the river.
I'm not sure I like your reasoning. Even with top set, anytime we push and get action we're at the mercy of the cards; I think the "made hand" vs. "drawing hand" perspective is a bad view. If we are 60-40, it doesn't matter if whether we're made or not, we're still 60%. (not saying that's the number here, just an example.) If we're 60%, then there's no reason we shouldn't put the money in the pot.
I'm not using that made vs drawing hand view per se, but rather our opponent is down to a very short stack and will most likely be calling us regardless of whether it is in the turn or river. If the stacks were larger, totally different story. 8)
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hes got the nut flush draw and a nut wrap draw, I dont ever advocate betting the pot with draws. I like 1/2 pot bets. To get it all in on the turn is inevitable b/c of the size of the pot.I may advocate folding this preflop honestly. Its a pot raise to call pf. Not a bad hand I'd limp with it (maybe) depending on my position.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am new to this game and I just nutpeddle; that being said, I never bet draws, and only made hands to defend/profit or call towards my draws. Here you have to be open to the possibility of someone having a set on the flop, making you 55/45 (something like that), and is not going to fold. You have what I call, a "rectum flush draw" unless you are going for the one out to the straight flush, I would most certainly just call this flop bet and wait for the safe straight card that is not a heart and then pot it. Take care!

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If they have a set they will beat you about 20% of the time and if they have a flush they will beat you about 95% of the time. So you have to be about 60% sure they don't have a higher flush. I'm pushing on the turn, because it would be pretty bad for them to give you a free card.

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  • 4 weeks later...
hes got the nut flush draw and a nut wrap draw, I dont ever advocate betting the pot with draws. I like 1/2 pot bets. To get it all in on the turn is inevitable b/c of the size of the pot.I may advocate folding this preflop honestly. Its a pot raise to call pf. Not a bad hand I'd limp with it (maybe) depending on my position.
I play a wrap with a flush draw exactly the same way I play a set. If you play it differently, a good opponent will notice this. I'd pot the flop and get it all in if I got raised.
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